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Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

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Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby andersonxt » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:47 pm

Before I bother Mr Zurek, I thought I should ask you folks whether I'm missing something obvious.

I find that the crescendo will add couplers, but it will not retire 8' intermanual or manual to pedal couplers. When this happens, I have to reload the organ to get them back off.

Thoughts, suggestions? (Besides not using it!) Thanks.
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby josq » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:04 am

I don´t have this problem with the Reuter.

However, please note that when using the default crescendo settings, the intramanual couplers are enabled in the first crescendo step. Therefore, even a very small movement of your crescendo pedal will enable the couplers. You can change this behavior in the crescendo jambs.
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby andersonxt » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:34 pm

Thanks, Josq. That was good info. I've never found the crescendo to be helpful with the music I play (but I keep checking it out with new purchases), so I guess I've never learned the basics.

But I'm still trying to figure out exactly what's happening. Could you please tell me one more thing? When you open an unused numbered combination set, what is the default assignment, if any, of each pedal on the pedal matrix?

Are the "boxes" open or closed?

I find a rather strange configuration in mine.

Thanks.

-Max
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby andersonxt » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 am

Well, I guess I can make that easier.

I find these default settings in "virgin" combination sets. Do you have the same?

Pedals 1-3, which I have assigned to my 3 physical pedal, are closed. 4-6 are open.

Going down the left hand column:

Crescendo assigned to 6. The meter is completely red.
String assigned to 5. Also red.
Solo assigned to 2. The meter is black.
Swell assigned to 3. The meter is black.
Great assigned to 1. The meter is black.
Choir assigned to 4. The meter is completely red.

Thanks--to anyone who can check this out for me.
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby josq » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:44 pm

Crescendo assigned to 6.
...etc:

Yes, that's what I get by default too

The meter is completely red.

Depends of the position of the physical pedals assigned to the virtual pedals 1-6. If unassigned, the default is all pedals open except pedal 6 (therefore the crescendo pedal meter is black by default).
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby OrganoPleno » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:49 pm

andersonxt wrote:I find that the crescendo will add couplers, but it will not retire 8' inter-manual or manual to pedal couplers. When this happens, I have to reload the organ to get them back off.


As stated before, these couplers come on very quickly when the Crescendo Pedal is advanced. If they do not go off again, it means that your Pedal is not physically returning quite to the Zero position. You could either press the Pedal further toward Zero, or adjust it somehow... or (easily) redefine the Crescendo Settings (found on two different Pages of the Display) so that those Couplers do not come on quite so early in the Sequence. This is done by checking (or unchecking) selected boxes on the Crescendo Pages until the Pattern becomes agreeable to you.

andersonxt wrote:When you open an unused numbered combination set, what is the default assignment, if any, of each pedal on the pedal matrix? Are the "boxes" open or closed?


See Below.

andersonxt wrote:I find these default settings in "virgin" combination sets. Do you have the same?

Pedals 1-3, which I have assigned to my 3 physical pedal, are closed. 4-6 are open.

Crescendo assigned to 6. The meter is completely red.
String assigned to 5. Also red.
Solo assigned to 2. The meter is black.
Swell assigned to 3. The meter is black.
Great assigned to 1. The meter is black.
Choir assigned to 4. The meter is completely red.


To check these "Default" settings, I did a complete re-install of the Reuter Organ. The Pedal Matrix assignments are as you have stated: Crescendo 6, Strings 5, Solo 2, Swell 3, Great 1, and Choir 4.

By default, the Crescendo is Black (Closed). All other Pedals are Red (Open).

None of this would change when selecting any General or Divisional Combination... whether used or unused.

Hoping that this is helpful.
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby josq » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:18 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:None of this would change when selecting any General or Divisional Combination... whether used or unused.

Hmm... in my setup the pedal assignments changes when using the generals.
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby OrganoPleno » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:20 pm

josq wrote:Hmm... in my setup the pedal assignments changes when using the generals.


You are correct.
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby andersonxt » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:46 pm

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I was ready to blame it all on my physical crescendo pedal, but when I checked it out more thoroughly, I found that in a virgin combo set it worked just fine; i.e., it successfully retired the couplers.

After that success I went back to the only combo set that I've created for the organ (which contains 70 combos on the stepper) and found that the problem persists: The pedal can't remove the couplers.

I next started manipulating the on-screen crescendo pedal with my mouse and found that it has the same problem. At the mouse's direction, it will add couplers and stops and remove stops--but not couplers. Any intermanual couplers, not just manuals/pedal. I guess I just hadn't checked it all out: I noticed the problem on the pedal first and assumed that was the extent of it.

OrganoPleno, you say "By default, the Crescendo is Black (Closed)." My default has the crescendo open, in red. How mine got to be different, I can't figure, but I'm thinking that might be the problem.

Would you advise a re-install next? I can have Hauptwerk save my settings, but won't that potentially also save a setting that's the cause of the problem? OTOH, I sure don't want to have to recreate those 70 combos. What do you think?
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby OrganoPleno » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:51 pm

andersonxt wrote:OrganoPleno, you say "By default, the Crescendo is Black (Closed)." My default has the crescendo open, in red. How mine got to be different, I can't figure, but I'm thinking that might be the problem.


Might be. First, check "General Cancel" to be sure everything else is OFF. Turn on Menu "View/Large Floating/Registration" and that large Registration Pop-Up should have a "General Cancel" at the bottom center. This lights up when "General Cancel" is in effect. Turn on some stops, then use your OWN "General Cancel" and make sure that the "General Cancel" on the Pop-Up also lights up.

Now use the Crescendo Pedal so you can hear that some Stops (and Couplers) are activated. The "General Cancel" light stays on because none of the activated Stops and Couplers are showing on the screen. Then move the Crescendo Pedal to OFF (Closed) and hope for silence... all stops de-activated. Now turn ON some stops on Choir, Solo, and Swell. Then play some notes on Great... if anything sounds there, your couplers must be on. And play some notes on Pedal. If anything sounds there, your couplers must be on.

I can't see any good reason why the Couplers would still be on, if Crescendo Pedal is really Closed and all Couplers were previously turned OFF by a General Cancel.

Next, check the Default Position for your Crescendo, as follows:

Menu "Organ Settings/Expression-Crescendo".
There are three entries for the Crescendo Pedal (left jam, simple, and expr). Make sure that the Default Position for all three reads Zero.
There are entries for UserPedal 1 thru 5, and 7. "Number 7" is for UserPedal 6, which is assigned to the Crescendo Pedal by default. Make sure that the Default Position for this one also reads Zero (under the default Tab "Primary Input"). Now change the Tab on top to "Input 2", and it should say "No Input/Disabled".

Save Changes, if you made any changes. The next time you load the Organ, we would expect for the Crescendo Pedal to read Black (closed/off) when you first start up. This should not change when any General Combination is activated. Then test again (as above) and see if things might be working better now, with the correct Opening Default Position for the Crescendo Pedal.

Good Luck!

andersonxt wrote:Would you advise a re-install next? I can have Hauptwerk save my settings, but won't that potentially also save a setting that's the cause of the problem? OTOH, I sure don't want to have to recreate those 70 combos. What do you think?


I would not take such a drastic move this soon. If you do need to re-install, it should be possible to save just the 70 combos without saving other settings which might possibly be causing problems. Contact me by PM if you wish to take this route.
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby andersonxt » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:58 pm

I followed your instructions but find that the default for the cresc pedal is still "open," all red.

Senario: In the combo set I've been using (I' ll call it XXX), none of the registrations I have saved on the stepper (1-70) have the crescendo pedal assigned.

I go to, say, stepper 100, and find that the crescendo is open, of course, since it's the default. Without doing anything in registration 100, I return to 000. The crescendo remains open. When I close it, the couplers remain on. I will have to reload the organ before I can use XXX again.

But first I copy registration 000.

Then I open an unused combo set, say, Combs24. The crescendo is, by default, open. I assign a pedal, and it closes automatically. This does NOT, in this set, unlike in XXX, leave the couplers on. So I can proceed just as one would expect with any combo set in any HW instrument--except that I have to close the crescendo pedal before I save any new registrations.

If I now paste in the saved registration from XXX, I find the couplers are on. (Perhaps that would be expected.) However, I can cancel that registration, the couplers come off. The problem does not persist in Combs24.

I'm really tired of having to reload in order to get the couplers off in XXX. Given that unused combo sets don't have the problem, the easy solution is just to abandon XXX from here on and start using a new one!

And hope that the problem doesn't recur.

Unless you really want to hit your head on this some more, I'll just thank you for your help and put this all in the category of "Oh, yeah, I vaguely remember there was a problem once...." Thanks.
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby OrganoPleno » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:29 pm

andersonxt wrote:I followed your instructions but find that the default for the cresc pedal is still "open," all red.


Yes, it turns out that my directions did not correct the issue. As I discovered when I could not get my own installation to default as "Crescendo Open (Red)". Here is the real answer, guaranteed to work, at least for this part of the issue.

It turns out there is a Special Reset that can PERMANENTLY REPROGRAM THE ORGAN!

Loading the Organ like normal, on the Pedal Matrix page use the Mouse to set ALL of the Pedals exactly the way you want them to be at Start-Up. Probably all five Swell Pedals fully OPEN (Red) and Pedal Number Six, assigned to Crescendo, fully CLOSED (Black).

Now click on Menu --> Engine --> Advanced --> Stop Audio/Midi

Everything goes blank.

Now click on Menu --> Engine --> Advanced --> Start Audio/Midi

And everything comes back... just the way it just was. This is now your New Default.

Unload the Organ, Load it again, and see the New Default in action! All Swells Open (Red) and Crescendo Closed (Black). Just the way it was supposed to be! Problem Number One now solved.

This Special Reset can also re-program the Pedal Matrix, if that is desired, such that any particular set-up can become the Default (with regards to General Cancel and with regards to re-loading the Organ).

*** On other Sample Sets, certain other Parameters can be similarly re-programmed in this way... defining a new status as General Cancel and as the Default on re-loading. ***

andersonxt wrote:So I can proceed just as one would expect with any combo set in any HW instrument--except that I have to close the crescendo pedal before I save any new registrations.


And with your new, improved Default, the Crescendo Pedal will ALWAYS be closed when saving any registration, just as long as the Crescendo Pedal is never touched after loading the Organ, until AFTER you have saved whatever Registrations you wish to save for that Session.

andersonxt wrote:The easy solution is just to abandon XXX from here on and start using a new one!


Better yet, loading one of the "bad" Combinations and then saving it (elsewhere) in this new Environment may cause the new save to be a good one. As it seems that you were already discovering.

Assuming this works as hoped for, then you can save ALL 70 of your existing Stepper combinations, by just bumping them all up by one in the sequence. Load #70, activate Setter (found at lower left of the Registration Pop-Up), and advance Stepper by one. This saves #70 to #71, hopefully in a corrected fashion.

Then turn off the Setter, and load #69. Save this to #70 in the same fashion. An so on until done. If desired, you could then move them all right back again to where they were before, hopefully all corrected now. #1 to #0, #2 to #1, and so on until done.

Good Luck!
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby OrganoPleno » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:45 am

OrganoPleno wrote:Better yet, loading one of the "bad" Combinations and then saving it (elsewhere) in this new Environment may cause the new save to be a good one. As it seems that you were already discovering.


Or, perhaps the old Combinations have already turned "good", just by changing the Environment in this way? That would be nice... and easy to find out!
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby josq » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:53 am

All this sounds to me like a bug, not a feature. I am working on an email to mr Zurek. There are a couple of other issues: the divisionals impact the intramanual couplers (is that correct??) and unified ranks are not or only partly unified in the sample set.
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Re: Problem on Reuter w/cresc pedal/couplers

Postby OrganoPleno » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:29 pm

andersonxt wrote:None of the registrations I have saved on the stepper (1-70) have the crescendo pedal assigned.


Not sure just what this means, but it worries me. You said that on any unused combination, the Pedal Matrix is "Default" and Pedal #6 is Crescendo. This should probably remain true for EVERY combination you define. Why would anybody want actual Pedal Assignments to vary from one Preset to another, when real Organs do not work that way?

In building and saving any Preset Combination, you should probably start from "General Cancel", where everything is in some known state. The state for an "Empty Combination" may or may not be the same as General Cancel; this should be determined before proceeding, by referring to that "General Cancel" Indicator at the bottom of the Registration Pop-Up.
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