It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:16 am


MOTU 16a Thunderbolt vs AVB to Mac

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

jkinkennon

Member

  • Posts: 1208
  • Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 9:43 am
  • Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: MOTU 16a Thunderbolt vs AVB to Mac

PostSun Dec 16, 2018 11:51 am

I just took a look at Dante and the first thing I run into is the virtual soundcard with latencies of 4, 6, or 10ms. Tell me this isn't the best we can expect. I understand that Dante is a fine product and would be useful in many situations, but for a PC or Mac to multiple speakers via ethernet there's no advantage to Dante or AVB if we end up with USB latencies. I think I'll look for info on Mac latencies using AVB and see if there is some definitive info.
Offline

murph

Member

  • Posts: 727
  • Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: MOTU 16a Thunderbolt vs AVB to Mac

PostSun Dec 16, 2018 12:19 pm

Hi John,
dedicated Dante cards have far lower latencies. The same goes for AVB-AVB direct connections. (Both around 0.6ms)(AES50 can go lower, but that's another discussion....)

It's the computer buffering that causes the latencies in virtual card (and Apple AVB), as the main processor is doing the work and sharing it's resources with everything else.......

Tony.
Offline
User avatar

rhedgebeth

Member

  • Posts: 101
  • Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:56 am
  • Location: Binghamton, NY

Re: MOTU 16a Thunderbolt vs AVB to Mac

PostSun Dec 16, 2018 12:50 pm

We have not noticed Dante latencies to be perceptible with the virtual soundcard implementation in usual circumstances. That being said we will be using a hardware version, with sub millisecond latency, in an upcoming concert hall installation. In that situation we're looking at an acoustical latency of some 40 milliseconds from the speaker location to the front of the stage and we don't wish to add to that - even a little. I believe the accepted threshold of latency perception is generally regarded to be about 12 milliseconds.
Richard S Hedgebeth
Westminster Organ Works
Authorized Hauptwerk reseller
http://Westminsterorganworks.com
Offline
User avatar

dw154515

Member

  • Posts: 439
  • Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:52 pm
  • Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: MOTU 16a Thunderbolt vs AVB to Mac

PostSun Dec 16, 2018 4:57 pm

jkinkennon wrote:I just took a look at Dante and the first thing I run into is the virtual soundcard with latencies of 4, 6, or 10ms. Tell me this isn't the best we can expect. I understand that Dante is a fine product and would be useful in many situations, but for a PC or Mac to multiple speakers via ethernet there's no advantage to Dante or AVB if we end up with USB latencies. I think I'll look for info on Mac latencies using AVB and see if there is some definitive info.


I did a Dante system recently across an university's Enterprise network (mentioned on another forum thread around here somewhere) where from endpoint to endpoint, through several switches, about 1/2 mile from transmitter to furthest receiver, we still had <0.5ms latency.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Design Engineer - American Sound and Electronics - Indy
https://americansound.cc/
Offline

jkinkennon

Member

  • Posts: 1208
  • Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 9:43 am
  • Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: MOTU 16a Thunderbolt vs AVB to Mac

PostSun Dec 16, 2018 8:13 pm

It sounds as if we are confusing network latency with the latency including the Mac or PC with their drivers. I did see a $1000 PCIe card which would replace the virtual sound card. Is that part of the sub-1ms setup? Either AVB-TSN or Dante can work wonders across their networks, but we need to include the computer and drivers.

Since 10ms latency is the equivalent of moving the speakers 11 feet further away I suppose that shouldn't be an issue in any case. If anyone tries the MOTU AVB interface with a current version of Mac OS I'd be curious to hear the results. I found info about problems with older El Capitan and Yosemite Macs but nothing about High Sierra or Mohave.

In my case I'd remote the MIDI over IP and use a fully functional console (no touch screens) if I needed to remote the console from the audio interface.
Offline
User avatar

rhedgebeth

Member

  • Posts: 101
  • Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:56 am
  • Location: Binghamton, NY

Re: MOTU 16a Thunderbolt vs AVB to Mac

PostSun Dec 16, 2018 8:49 pm

Yes, it is a PCIe card which will deliver sub millisecond latency. Were it not that the particular situation involves professional musicians in an academic situation we might otherwise be satisfied with the virtual sound card. As you accurately point out the difference amounts to being - at most - 11 feet farther from the speakers. This would not be very noticeable (if at all) to typical church musicians. There are other things more noticeable that get far less attention.
Richard S Hedgebeth
Westminster Organ Works
Authorized Hauptwerk reseller
http://Westminsterorganworks.com
Previous

Return to Audio / MIDI interfacing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests