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Setting up a MIDI thru in Hauptwerk

Building organ consoles for use with Hauptwerk, adding MIDI to existing consoles, obtaining parts, ...

Setting up a MIDI thru in Hauptwerk

Postby hintersatz » Sun May 05, 2019 3:26 pm

Hhi there,
Is it possible to set up a MIDI thru in Hauptwerk, means, HW sends its input signal to the MIDI -out?
Last edited by hintersatz on Tue May 07, 2019 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Setting up a MIDI through in Hauptwerk

Postby josq » Mon May 06, 2019 3:48 am

Hauptwerk does have a couple of features to send MIDI out. For example, MIDI-out can be used for lighted pistons.
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Re: Setting up a MIDI through in Hauptwerk

Postby IainStinson » Mon May 06, 2019 5:09 am

Hauptwerk itself does not provide "midi thru".

There are number of hardware midi thru boxes which take a midi stream a replicate it on a number of other midi ports see https://www.thomann.de/gb/kenton_midi_thru_5.htm and https://www.midiboutique.com/MIDI-Processors/mpo2x2 You neeed to check that sysex messages are handled correctly. These work with "five pin DIN" standard midi connections.

If you are working with "midi over usb" you need to look at different types of solutions.

Do you have a particular requirement?

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Re: Setting up a MIDI through in Hauptwerk

Postby hintersatz » Tue May 07, 2019 5:52 pm

IainStinson wrote:Hauptwerk itself does not provide "midi thru".

Do you have a particular requirement?

Iain


YES!
I have configured the "GEN 5" piston of my Rodgers 599 organ to turn the page in Mobile Sheets, so I need an MIDI event send to MIDI-Out when the piston is pressed, seperate MIDI-Interface connected to the Tablet presenting the score. 8)
I`ve seen thouse various MIDI-Hardware-Spitters, even a soft solution in Hauptwerk would be more elegant.
:idea:
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Re: Setting up a MIDI thru in Hauptwerk

Postby IainStinson » Wed May 08, 2019 4:35 am

You don’t need midi thru for this.

The following should do what you want.....

Connect a midi interface to the Hw computer to receive and send midi between the console and the Hw computer. This is the existing Midi interface and used to “play” the organ. Call this Midi interface A.

Connect the midi from the console to this midi interface. Midi out from the console to midi in on the interface....

Connect a second midi interface to the Hw computer to receive and send midi between the tablet used for reading music and the Hw computer. Call this Midi interface B.

Connect the midi in from the tablet’s midi interface to midi out on interface B and midi out from the tablet to midi in on interface B.

To turn the page on the tablet (music reader), you need to send it midi command.

In HW enable both midi interfaces ( A and B) for input and output. Interface A, used for the console is (probably) already set up. [General Settings | Midi ports.... Set the interfaces for console input and output.]

We need to set up the system so that when the piston on the console to be used to turn the page is pressed, HW sends the midi command to turn the page on the midi interface connected between the HW computer and the tablet used for reading music, interface B. We must also arrange that pressing this piston has no effect on the virtual organ being played in Hauptwerk.

We shall use a HW master reversible piston as the piston function which will have no effect on the organ being played provided it is not set to operate any stops. Chose one of the master reversible you are not using, let’s assume it is master reversible A1. (You could us any other function which you may configure not to effect the organ being played.)

Auto detect the Hauptwerk master reversible A1, connecting it to the piston on your console which you want to use for page turning. Do not set this piston to operate any stops. [ View | Large control panel | Master reversible combinations. Right click on reversible A1 and click on Auto detect in the drop down. Press and release the piston to be used for page master reversible A1 (which will be used for page turn). Click done in the auto detect window.]

Now adjust the midi settings for this piston so that its OUTPUT sends the midi data needed by the music reader tablet to turn the page and set the OUTPUT device to be interface B. [ View | Large control panel | Master reversible combinations. Right click on reversible A1 and click on Adjust Midi.... In the window which opens select the Primary Output Tab. Complete the Output details with the midi information needed by the page turn tablet (software) to turn the page; Set the Midi Out Port to be Interface B by selecting interface B from the drop down. Click OK]

So when the piston is pressed on the console, it sends the midi code which HW receives on interface A and detects as master reversible A1. Hauptwerk sends the output midi data configured for the master reversible 1 on the configured midi interface, which is interface B. The tablet will receive the command on interface B and turn the page. Because HW has been set up so that Master reversible A1 has no stop associated with it, pressing the piston will not effect the virtual organ being played.

You will need to configure the page turn piston in each sample set you use.

This assumes that when pressing a piston on the console the console does not have to receive data back from HW for the console to continue to operate fully and correctly. It also assumes that the music reader tablet only needs to receive a single midi command to turn the page.

If the tablet offers other functions (eg. turn back a page) other pistons may be similarly configured to access these.

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Re: Setting up a MIDI thru in Hauptwerk

Postby hintersatz » Wed May 08, 2019 5:07 am

Hi Lain,
thanks a lot for the hint with the second MIDI (Interface B)
Does practically not work 'cause I'm using a Mobile Workstation with not one USB free anymore.
But my Interface A provides two seperate MIDI-Ports, maybe I will come to goal with this.
Sincerly yours :roll:
Jürgen
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Re: Setting up a MIDI thru in Hauptwerk

Postby IainStinson » Wed May 08, 2019 5:22 am

You could use a usb hub to get more USB connections. Using the second output port on the interface should also work (but remember to configure HW to use it).

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Re: Setting up a MIDI thru in Hauptwerk

Postby hintersatz » Thu May 23, 2019 5:34 pm

Nichts hat funktioniert. Im Setup meines MIDI-Interfaces mit den 2 Kanälen war ein Effekt zu erreichen, dass das Tablet beim Klick auf "TesT: sent 'on'" im Konfigurationsmenü der MIDI Key/Triggers for Master Pistons umblätterte, beim Betätigen der Hauptwerk-Buttons oder gar dem Betätigen der Pistons tat sich gar nichts. :mrgreen:

Hardware-MIDI-Splitter bestellt: Absolut kein Ergebnis, das MIDI-Interface des Tablets kriegt keine MIDI-Daten weitergereicht, lag vermutlich daran, dass der MIDI-Splitter keine eigene Stromversorgung hatte und somit dem MIDI-Interface keine zur Verfügung stellte. Alles Mist, das Ding zurück geschickt.
:mrgreen:

Ich habe mir jetzt ein Bluetooth-Pedal zum Umblättern bestellt, es ist denke ich besser, diese Steuerungskreise zu trennnen bzw. unabhängig voneiander zu betreiben, zumal es sich in der Praxis auch als unvorteilhatft herausgestellt hat, links der Schweller den Umblätter-Piston und rechts der Schweller den Setzer-weiter Piston anzuordnen. In der Spielpraxis komme ich da zu oft durcheinader, werde die Setzer-weiter- Funktion jetzt für beide Pistons rechts und links der Schweller einrichten, die Umblätterfunktion dann getrennt auch mit einem separaten Bluetooth-Pedal ermöglichen.
Danke Euch für eure Hilfe, ein Versuch, das über MIDI zu lösen, war es jedenfalls wert, wäre Orgel-intern eleganter gewesen. Es scheint aber bei dem relativ lahmen MIDI-System auch nicht unbedingt empfehlenswert, da noch irgentwelche Module dazwischen zu schalten,das macht nur Latenzen.
:mrgreen:
LG
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Re: Setting up a MIDI thru in Hauptwerk

Postby IainStinson » Thu May 23, 2019 6:37 pm

In summary:
I think Jurgen is saying that he did not get it working with a midi spliter and sent it back.
He is going to (or is) using a bluetooth pedal instead. He says this is less elegant than midi.
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