Search:
Submit Search


Sampling video tutorials

Sampling pipe organs and turning them into something you can play in Hauptwerk.

Sampling video tutorials

Postby giwro » Mon May 27, 2019 1:32 pm

So, I’ve been thinking about documenting the sampling process - doing some videos that show the process (at least the way I do it).

I’ve lost track of the times I’ve given advice to would-be samplers (which I’m glad to do) and think maybe it would be a good idea to preserve the techniques I’ve learned after 15 years at this (yes, Virginia, I released the venerable FBR set way back in 2004, about this time of year!)

Is there any interest in such a thing?
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
User avatar
giwro
Member
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby engrssc » Mon May 27, 2019 5:19 pm

Yes, and I realize making such a tutorial takes much effort.

Rgds,
Ed
User avatar
engrssc
Member
 
Posts: 6109
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:12 pm
Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby Doug S. » Mon May 27, 2019 9:04 pm

An emphatic yes!
Doug
User avatar
Doug S.
Member
 
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Massachusetts USA

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby csw900 » Tue May 28, 2019 3:15 am

I would love to learn more about your experiences. Even though sometimes tiresome it is always a good idea to document your work.

I would get the writing done first, then if necessary, fill in the gaps with a video.

csw900
User avatar
csw900
Member
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:40 am
Location: UK

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby organsRgreat » Tue May 28, 2019 5:28 am

I'd certainly be interested - I find the whole process fascinating.
organsRgreat
Member
 
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:30 am
Location: England

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby giwro » Tue May 28, 2019 9:34 am

Well then, I’ll have a go at it.

I’ve thought that it really would be good to document - I’ve written some things down, but a lot of it is in my noggin, and I’m runnning out of space :D

The reason I thought about video, is that writing about a lot of this is only sort of helpful... some of what I do you need to see and hear the process before it starts to make sense. I’ve had so many people say “just tell me how”, and then they get lackluster results...

I think one of my reasons also is that I think back to my father, who passed in 1985... he was in the dry-cleaning business, and had been since he was a teenager. Dad could get spots out of clothing that no one else could - he had years of experimentation and experience. Sadly, he didn’t document any of it... so when he passed, much of that knowledge was lost.

I am at the point where I think I’ve finally done this enough that I really grasp the concepts quite well... and the results I’m getting are so far superior to what I did 15 years ago, I only wish I had those old recordings and I could re-process them! Now, audio forensics is a bit more documented than dry-cleaning, but the narrow field of organ sample production really is not. We have many producers who have custom-written their own software to do the job... that is just amazing (but then it means each new entity has to reinvent the process)

So, there you have it.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
User avatar
giwro
Member
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby Arp » Tue May 28, 2019 1:42 pm

I'm very interested. It would be nice to share
Thanks in advance
Arp
Member
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:24 pm

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby elia » Thu May 30, 2019 12:21 pm

It might be a good idea to gather interested people and perhaps even create a collaborative (dry) sampling project...
Elia
User avatar
elia
Member
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Location: Italy , Padova

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby dkoschinski » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:18 pm

giwro wrote:Well then, I’ll have a go at it.


When will you publish these videos? I am curious/ interested to see how other producers deal with the development process and perhaps I can also add a video of my own, because we will soon record again some material. Regards, Danny
User avatar
dkoschinski
Member
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:55 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby elia » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:13 pm

I try to open the window to let the air pass ... :-)

The Analog Recording quality certainly determines the quality of the work but it is not enough, the way you work can have an equally important impact.
First of all there must be an awareness of what can be done and that cannot be done in the specific case. A sense of coherence and constructive balance between all the important elements is fundamental to avoid forcing and to find that sweet spot to interact with synergy: the acoustics, the noise, the closeness to the source, the stereo or surround techniques, the analog recording tools, the post-production tools, ....

These are just words but awareness is important and means: Never tell yourself, "I'll fix it later."
In reality there are many subjective aspects and the final work somehow expresses the author's aesthetic intentions.



Personally I am more interested in close sampling with just one microphone but even in this way there are many variables and choices to make. For example, an omnidirectional microphone (pressure) may not be ideal if the environment is noisy. Even positioned a few inches from the source it can capture a lot of dirt from the environment.
You can think of attenuating this dirt in post production with the current iZotope RX7 Spectral De-noise but you can also decide to use a directional microphone (pressure gradient) to focus on the source (and to control the proximity effect). Even in the analog domain you can think of using a transient shaping tool like Elysia nvelope to dry the sound out of the dirt by decreasing the "Sustain" control ...
In short, you can proceed in various ways based on your priorities.

To talk about some concrete examples, if you listen to 1928 MT. CARMEL E.M. SKINNER (DRY) you can understand that more than ten years ago the denoise processors were not as sophisticated as today and the sound quality is inevitably affected. I think that today's restoration could greatly improve the stop quality. Despite this, good results can be achieved especially when the stops are mixed together.
Elia
User avatar
elia
Member
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Location: Italy , Padova

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby giwro » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:06 pm

dkoschinski wrote:
giwro wrote:Well then, I’ll have a go at it.


When will you publish these videos? I am curious/ interested to see how other producers deal with the development process and perhaps I can also add a video of my own, because we will soon record again some material. Regards, Danny


Hi Danny,

We have another project coming soon, and I may do some of the videos then - or I could simply use a file I have already as an example...

It is a very interesting process, and we all can hopefully learn from each other.
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
User avatar
giwro
Member
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby dkoschinski » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:15 pm

giwro wrote:We have another project coming soon, and I may do some of the videos then - or I could simply use a file I have already as an example... It is a very interesting process, and we all can hopefully learn from each other.

I know it's a very interesting process :D. But all of you who are interested in the development process have to keep in mind that recording one organ is not the same as recording another (because microphone positions, acoustics, editing, mixing tracks and such differ between different organs). So a certain demonstration video will show just an example of the recording and post-production process of one specific organ in an associated environment. Therefore, different circumstances cannot be compared with each other.

Kind regards,
Danny
User avatar
dkoschinski
Member
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:55 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby giwro » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:42 pm

dkoschinski wrote:I know it's a very interesting process :D. But all of you who are interested in the development process have to keep in mind that recording one organ is not the same as recording another (because microphone positions, acoustics, editing, mixing tracks and such differ between different organs). So a certain demonstration video will show just an example of the recording and post-production process of one specific organ in an associated environment. Therefore, different circumstances cannot be compared with each other.

Kind regards,
Danny


You are very correct, Danny. However, there are some general skills that are similar for all sample sets, and my hope is that by sharing them I can help people understand the process better.

After the denoising process (which I think you would agree is one of the most variable parts of the process) my note-trimming, pitch detection, looping, setting releases, etc. is quite similar from organ to organ.

Recording - I can give general guidelines, but a lot of it comes down to experience, experimentation, and good ears for mic placement.

The first installment is for setting release markers:
http://www.evensongmusic.net/?page_id=2953

Enjoy!
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
User avatar
giwro
Member
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby chr.schmitz » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:21 am

Jonathan, this is a very interesting video. Why do we often see these bumps at the beginning of the release tail?

Chris
User avatar
chr.schmitz
Member
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:49 am

Re: Sampling video tutorials

Postby giwro » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:18 pm

chr.schmitz wrote:Jonathan, this is a very interesting video. Why do we often see these bumps at the beginning of the release tail?

Chris


Chris, that is the sound of the pipe valve shutting!
Jonathan Orwig
Coon Rapids, Minnesota USA
User avatar
giwro
Member
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:22 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota USA

Next

Return to Creating sample sets / recording organs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests