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Loss of audio

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Loss of audio

Postby MDavenport » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:27 pm

Put on your thinking caps please.

I have the latest Hauptwerk, a brand new Dell PC with everything needed to run it, Focusrite Scarlette18i 20 that I have had for about 3 years I have used Hauptwerk for about a decade but I have a problem I cannot figure out.

After about an hour Hauptwerk seems to forget something. The audio no longer works. The midi signal is going out, the pistons work, the keys show that they are working but no sound. What I do is re-load the organ and all is well, for about an hour or so.

This ALSO happens with Grand Orgue but NOT with MidiTzer and NOT with YouTube. What could it be?

Thanks.

-=Martin=-
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Re: Loss of audio

Postby engrssc » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:02 pm

Something running in the background? What OS? If a new copy of Win 10, did you disable SuperFetch/SysMain? Does computer connect to the Internet, looking for updates? Have you tried to disable Windows disk indexing?

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Ed
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Re: Loss of audio

Postby MDavenport » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:15 pm

Newest and up-to-date Windows 10.

How do I check all the things you mentioned?

Thanks,

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby IainStinson » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:33 pm

Are you using the MIDI in/out on the Scarlette18i 20? If you are (and you did say that the MIDI continued to work after the sound stopped working) then it is most likely that the audio driver has failed in some way.

Have you tried restarting the audio from within Hauptwerk (Engine | Reset Audio/MIDI... ) If the Hauptwerk can restart the audio it this way, then it is most likely that the ASIO driver has failed (I assume you ASIO output for the audio system). You might find the failure logged in the Windows Event Log.

You should check that the Scarlette18i 20 ASIO driver is up to date (from Focusrite web site...); if the driver on the website is very new, perhaps try the previous version (if available).

As noted above, you might check that the Windows Service SysMain is not running...

You might try making the ASIO buffer size a little larger so that the driver is not being called so frequently...

Good luck.

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby IainStinson » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:34 pm

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby csw900 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:05 am

You could also try testing your memory. Windows has a built in function for doing this - it takes a long time but is very thorough. Just because the computer is new does not mean it is perfect. Most faults usually appear on new electronic equipment - its called the bathtub effect.

Even one memory error can cause very weird faults.

HW and Miditzer use completely different audio techniques and methods whereas HW and GO use the same audio methods.

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby MDavenport » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:51 pm

OK folks, I have tried each of these suggestions but have not solved the problem yet. Any other thoughts?

Thanks,

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby csw900 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:14 am

Martin

I think you have a hardware problem, and since it activates after about an hour, it is heat related.

Open up the computer's case and with a hair dryer gently heat up various components and see which one induces the fault.

It may be easier to do the opposite - wait for the fault to appear and, with a can of freezer spray, cool down various components and see when the fault is cleared.

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby IainStinson » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:12 am

Sorry to hear the problem continues.

Did restarting the audio from within Hauptwerk bring the audio back to life again?
Did you check for any error messages in the Windows event log?
These two steps might help determine if you have an ASIO driver problem.

As you said that the midi continues to work when the audio disappears, it is unlikely that the computer system has a problem . (I would advise that you do not try using the heat / cool method on a modern motherboard - at best it is a waste of time and at worst you could do some damage. Run the Dell diagnostics if you have a suspected hardware problem.)

Is your midi connected via the midiport on the Focusrite unit or some other way?
If the midi is not connected by the Focusrite box, does power cycling the Focusrite unit resolve the problem? If the midi is connected via the Focusrite then the link between the computer and the Focusrite is probably ok and this would tend to support the ASIO driver being the problem. You are using ASIO driver from Focusrite and not ASIOALL or similar generic driver?

Do you drive a set of headphones from the Focusrite? If they work then the problem is likely downstream from the Focusrite. Do you power amps have a timeout feature where they go into sleep mode , usually only after a period of not playing. Can you waken them in some way (play very loud chord)? I mention this as my amps have such a timeout feature.

Good luck.

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby MDavenport » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:03 am

Turning the Focusrite off and on doesn't fix the problem. Only reloading the organ fixes the problem (for a while) which makes me think the problem is somewhere in the Hauptwerk program and the Grande Orgue program. I will try the headphones the next time it happens.

Thanks everyone!

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby IainStinson » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:30 am

If reloading the organ fixes the problem it is likely that resetting the audio as mentioned above will also fix the problem since both restart the audio driver. This suggests the problem is with the audio driver for your Focusrite box. Look at the windows event log as advised above and check out versions of the driver and perhaps try different buffer sizes as noted above.

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby engrssc » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:48 am

Assume if you have Grande Orgue loaded on the same computer as Hauptwerk that there is no chance that somehow while playing, a command is sent to start G/O. There are some sample sets that have been created for both H/W and G/O that have, in some cases, a similar code structure. Does this loss of audio happen with all sample sets? Have you sent the diagnostic file in to Hauptwerk? I think you mentioned the same loss of audio happens with Grande Orgue. Can you disable (even temporarily) Grande Orgue?

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Re: Loss of audio

Postby MDavenport » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:17 am

NEW HINT!

I did as suggested and tried headphones on Focusrite after the audio went out and no sound there either. THEN I cycled Focusrite off and on and nothing changed. BUT, later I recycled Focusrite when things were working and LOTS of things happened! 1-Lost audio and 2-MIDI no longer when out!

Tried to re load organ and that didn't fix it the way it used to. Instead I got this message: "Could not stop MIDI IN port 'Focusrite USB MIDI'. (Operating system message: There is no driver installed on your system., code: 6.) Message code for diagnistic purposes): 3809

Restarted the computer and during start up I got the message I always get: "Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 (1st Gen) Sample Rate 48000 Buffer size: 1024 Clock: Internal (LOCKED) Focusrite Notifier

Once the computer restarted all is well again, but of course I expect the audio to go out in about an hour or so.

I am at a loss.

Again, thanks for your help and insight. It is much appreciated.

-=Martin=-
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Re: Loss of audio

Postby jkinkennon » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:42 am

Try displaying the Audio, MIDI and Performance panel in order to monitor the CPU usage. The CPU bar will leave a single illuminated bar at the highest CPU usage. If a red bar is lit when the audio dropout occurs then it is likely that the connection to the interface was broken because the computer could not keep up with the 18i20's requests. Note that you can click on the CPU bar to reset the highest reading.

If you are getting that highest red bar lit the most likely cause is that the SysMain service has not been turned off. Other possibilities are any other running processes on the computer. Task manager can help identify the problem. Remember that SysMain will be turned back on when the PC is restarted -- disabling it is a possibility though that will make a dent in overall PC performance for other work.

The other possibility is that not enough free memory is left over after loading a sample set. Any indication of paged out memory is a big red flag. Any info you can share about the installed RAM and available RAM after loading HW could be helpful.
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Re: Loss of audio

Postby MDavenport » Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:49 pm

From Hauptwerk Audio/MIDI Performance Panel:
RAM: 53.6 Free GB
CPU: Greem (6th bar)
Task Manager: Only Hauptwerk is running

Computer:
Intel i7 9700 CPU @ 3.00 GHz
RAM: 64.0 GB (63.8 usable)
Windows 10 Home V1903
64 bit

Thanks,

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