Dry or wet sample sets
When I some months ago got so interested in Houptwerk as the most advanced virtual organ program, that I decided to buy it, it was a surprise to discover that the most classical sample sets are wet (some of the greatest are wringing wet) and only a few are dry.
Both the use of wet and of dry sample sets can have advantages and disadvantages, and people can have different opinions.
To discuss improvement of somthing already eminent you have to focus details.
The primare purpose of this writing is not to criticise the many great classical both barouque and romantic wet sample sets, but
- in few words to focus some of the problems in the issue to use wet contra dry sample sets in a virtual organ, and
- in view of the unbalance between the many wet classical sample sets and only very few dry sets, to advocate the value of the dry (or moderately wet) sample set.
Why are the most sample sets wet?
The acoustics is said to be the organs most important "pipe".
Indeed the acoustics of the church is an important factor in creating the best possible realism in a digital reproduction of a pipe organ, but still only one factor out of more, and wee can not optimise them all at the same time. Either wee have to optimise some at the expense of others or to make one or another compromise.
The assumption behind the use of wet samples.
Although a simplification, to make a virtual organ from wet samples is implicit and in principle based on the assumption, that the sum of a multiply of virtual pipes recorded inclusive acoustics will give the samme resultant sound as if you record the same multiply of pipes played in the church (or other location).
But, is this assumption true? Is that the case?
The degree in which it is depends on the circumstances.
If the room is not too wet for example a vellage church, and the organ is played without celesta and tremolo, it is a rather good approximation,
but if the room is very wet for example a cathedral, and especially if you play with tremolo, it is far from the case.
The more wet the more serious the problems are - of course.
Unfortunately the greatest organs are often placed in cathedrals and the sample sets are recorded with the very wet acoustics to replicate the ambience.
The kind of sound we want of a virtual organ.
Some times wee here in forum can read praising words like: "sounds like playing a CD recorded of the real organ", and it is indeed impressive that (a recorcing of) a virtual organ can be difficult to distinguish from a recording of the real organ.
But the sound wee want in our room when playing a virtual organ, is it a sound like playing a CD?
Not exactly in my opinion.
In my opinion the goal for the virtual organ is to aim at a sound like if the real pipe were presant in my living room although it isn't, to obtain the best possible illusion.
The question for me is, how do wee best approach this goal? By dry or wet samples?
The attack, the steady tone and the release.
Some problems of the release when playing wet sample sets, and reduction of the problems by multiple releases, have earllier been discussed in forum and shall not be repeated here.
However also the steady tone and the attack are affected by the reverberation in the wet samples.
The attack is an important component of an organ stop, but with heavy reverberation in the sample set the attack of the tone is masked and blurred.
Celesta and tremolo are masked and blurred as well, and in addition the tremolo sounds unnatural when wet samples are trembled.
If the reverberation is exaggerated in a sample set, one can when playing have a feeling that best can be described as a rubber like feeling and a feeling of playing a ghost organ, an organ without body.
Rather moderate the reverberation than exaggerate it, rather too little than too much.
The direction of the native sound and the reverberation and sound complexity.
Now vee come to one af the most important points of the subject. The possibility to distribute the direct organ sound and the reverberation trough different channels and speakers - or not.
Our hearing has an ability to some extent to identify the direction of the sound, which besides of the sounds content is a part of the total sound image. Different directions of sounds besides of other parameters help us to distinguish sounds from each other.
When wee hear an organ in the church the direct sound from the organ is heard in a relatively narrow spectrum of directions, but the reverberation has all possible directions as reflections from walls, floor and vaults etc.
If the dry and the wet components of the sound are mixed together and heard through the same speakers they have the same direction of course, which is quite otherwise than in the church and gives another impression.
When the reverberation are conducted through different channels and speakers than the dry organ sound, and if the reverb spearkers are placed in the room with the purpose in view, wee can to some extent imitate the acoustic situation in the church.
In addition when the dry and wet component are separatet through different channels, the organ is heard not only more realistic but with much more clarity and transparency, and it can for example be possible to hear the attack of a new tone without it nearly drowns although playing with heavy reverberation.
When the direct sound from the organ is mixed with the reverberation as is the case with wet samples, the result is a much more complex signal than the native organ sound.
The more complex the signal is the greater demand on the quality of the loudspeakers, or in other words with the same speakers the greater complexity the greater distortion.
To day you can buy fairly good digital reverberation units with several adjustable parameters from for example Lexicon at a resonable price.
Although the reverberation is not a precise image of the ambience in the church in which the sample set is recorded, the result can be just fine.
When wee deal with electronic organs analogous or digital/virtual wee have to remember, that the electronics produce no sound by itself, only electric signals, and wee have no sound until the speakers (or phones), the transducers, transform the signals to sound.
The loudspeaker system, inclusive not only the type and qualities of the speakers but also the locations and directions of the speakers in the room, is an important factor in relation to achieve the best realism of a virtual or other electronic organ.
In view of how important it is, it is surprising how little loudspeaker systems are discussed in forum, but it is out of the theme of this writing.
I hope that some of the makers of sample sets in future will provide us with high quality dry sample sets of great classical organs as they do now with wet samples.
In cases where it is not practical possible to make close mic recordings of the pipes, I hope that they besides of the wet sample sets also will make semi dry sample sets with reduced reverberation, although the sets then do not include a replica of the ambience in the church.
A practical solution don't need to be either black og white.
These were some thoughts of a simple amateur.
I hope that some other both users and creaters of sample sets will contribute with their thoughts and experiences.
Thanks for reading so far!
Regards
Johannes
When I some months ago got so interested in Houptwerk as the most advanced virtual organ program, that I decided to buy it, it was a surprise to discover that the most classical sample sets are wet (some of the greatest are wringing wet) and only a few are dry.
Both the use of wet and of dry sample sets can have advantages and disadvantages, and people can have different opinions.
To discuss improvement of somthing already eminent you have to focus details.
The primare purpose of this writing is not to criticise the many great classical both barouque and romantic wet sample sets, but
- in few words to focus some of the problems in the issue to use wet contra dry sample sets in a virtual organ, and
- in view of the unbalance between the many wet classical sample sets and only very few dry sets, to advocate the value of the dry (or moderately wet) sample set.
Why are the most sample sets wet?
The acoustics is said to be the organs most important "pipe".
Indeed the acoustics of the church is an important factor in creating the best possible realism in a digital reproduction of a pipe organ, but still only one factor out of more, and wee can not optimise them all at the same time. Either wee have to optimise some at the expense of others or to make one or another compromise.
The assumption behind the use of wet samples.
Although a simplification, to make a virtual organ from wet samples is implicit and in principle based on the assumption, that the sum of a multiply of virtual pipes recorded inclusive acoustics will give the samme resultant sound as if you record the same multiply of pipes played in the church (or other location).
But, is this assumption true? Is that the case?
The degree in which it is depends on the circumstances.
If the room is not too wet for example a vellage church, and the organ is played without celesta and tremolo, it is a rather good approximation,
but if the room is very wet for example a cathedral, and especially if you play with tremolo, it is far from the case.
The more wet the more serious the problems are - of course.
Unfortunately the greatest organs are often placed in cathedrals and the sample sets are recorded with the very wet acoustics to replicate the ambience.
The kind of sound we want of a virtual organ.
Some times wee here in forum can read praising words like: "sounds like playing a CD recorded of the real organ", and it is indeed impressive that (a recorcing of) a virtual organ can be difficult to distinguish from a recording of the real organ.
But the sound wee want in our room when playing a virtual organ, is it a sound like playing a CD?
Not exactly in my opinion.
In my opinion the goal for the virtual organ is to aim at a sound like if the real pipe were presant in my living room although it isn't, to obtain the best possible illusion.
The question for me is, how do wee best approach this goal? By dry or wet samples?
The attack, the steady tone and the release.
Some problems of the release when playing wet sample sets, and reduction of the problems by multiple releases, have earllier been discussed in forum and shall not be repeated here.
However also the steady tone and the attack are affected by the reverberation in the wet samples.
The attack is an important component of an organ stop, but with heavy reverberation in the sample set the attack of the tone is masked and blurred.
Celesta and tremolo are masked and blurred as well, and in addition the tremolo sounds unnatural when wet samples are trembled.
If the reverberation is exaggerated in a sample set, one can when playing have a feeling that best can be described as a rubber like feeling and a feeling of playing a ghost organ, an organ without body.
Rather moderate the reverberation than exaggerate it, rather too little than too much.
The direction of the native sound and the reverberation and sound complexity.
Now vee come to one af the most important points of the subject. The possibility to distribute the direct organ sound and the reverberation trough different channels and speakers - or not.
Our hearing has an ability to some extent to identify the direction of the sound, which besides of the sounds content is a part of the total sound image. Different directions of sounds besides of other parameters help us to distinguish sounds from each other.
When wee hear an organ in the church the direct sound from the organ is heard in a relatively narrow spectrum of directions, but the reverberation has all possible directions as reflections from walls, floor and vaults etc.
If the dry and the wet components of the sound are mixed together and heard through the same speakers they have the same direction of course, which is quite otherwise than in the church and gives another impression.
When the reverberation are conducted through different channels and speakers than the dry organ sound, and if the reverb spearkers are placed in the room with the purpose in view, wee can to some extent imitate the acoustic situation in the church.
In addition when the dry and wet component are separatet through different channels, the organ is heard not only more realistic but with much more clarity and transparency, and it can for example be possible to hear the attack of a new tone without it nearly drowns although playing with heavy reverberation.
When the direct sound from the organ is mixed with the reverberation as is the case with wet samples, the result is a much more complex signal than the native organ sound.
The more complex the signal is the greater demand on the quality of the loudspeakers, or in other words with the same speakers the greater complexity the greater distortion.
To day you can buy fairly good digital reverberation units with several adjustable parameters from for example Lexicon at a resonable price.
Although the reverberation is not a precise image of the ambience in the church in which the sample set is recorded, the result can be just fine.
When wee deal with electronic organs analogous or digital/virtual wee have to remember, that the electronics produce no sound by itself, only electric signals, and wee have no sound until the speakers (or phones), the transducers, transform the signals to sound.
The loudspeaker system, inclusive not only the type and qualities of the speakers but also the locations and directions of the speakers in the room, is an important factor in relation to achieve the best realism of a virtual or other electronic organ.
In view of how important it is, it is surprising how little loudspeaker systems are discussed in forum, but it is out of the theme of this writing.
I hope that some of the makers of sample sets in future will provide us with high quality dry sample sets of great classical organs as they do now with wet samples.
In cases where it is not practical possible to make close mic recordings of the pipes, I hope that they besides of the wet sample sets also will make semi dry sample sets with reduced reverberation, although the sets then do not include a replica of the ambience in the church.
A practical solution don't need to be either black og white.
These were some thoughts of a simple amateur.
I hope that some other both users and creaters of sample sets will contribute with their thoughts and experiences.
Thanks for reading so far!
Regards
Johannes