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Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...

Postby Stefanussen » Fri May 01, 2009 6:03 pm

Yes, I very much prefer to hear the instrument with the sounds balanced and blended as the voicer intended.
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Postby Sander » Wed May 06, 2009 3:59 am

@Anton:
I think if you play it fast the Caen Surround only misses a lot as it's basicly only the release tail, which for these notes is not sufficient information.
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Postby Anton Heger » Wed May 06, 2009 7:15 am

Hello Sander,

Is the rear samples have only one release instead of 2 or 3, it is indeed not possible to use them as a replacement for the front samples.
Thanks for this info!

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Postby IanPounder » Wed May 06, 2009 9:25 am

I think if you play it fast the Caen Surround only misses a lot as it's basicly only the release tail, which for these notes is not sufficient information.


I don't think this is correct - perhaps Jiri could comment? As far as I can tell, it's the same sampling technique, but just with the microphones further away. Playing the surround-only samples gives a feeling of playing an organ in the distance, but not that any sample data (specifically release samples) are missing.

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Postby Sander » Fri May 08, 2009 12:23 pm

I mean if notes are too short, there will be barely any echo. And the rear channel is only echo. But Jiri's comments are always welcome. Maybe I should experiment a bit with combining the two channels. But I am also limited to 8GB and 2 soundchannels at the moment.
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Postby Gert » Fri May 08, 2009 1:19 pm

I have 8 GB too.
My favorite configuration for Caen is Surround with:
- Key, draw stop and other sounds: 14-bit, first loop, compressed, multiple releases
- Rear: 14-bit, first loop, compressed, multiple releases
- Front Pedal: 14-bit, first loop, compressed, multiple releases
- Front GO, Recit en Positief: 16-bit, first loop, compressed, multiple releases
- 2 Pedal stops (of 11): Don't load
- 13 other stops (of 44): Don't load

So I can load 9 pedal stops and 31 other stops.

regards,
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Re: Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Postby Aristide » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:41 pm

I tried Caen and I am very disappointed.

Well the original organ is very good, I should rate Caen original organ 9/10, and Metz 8/10.

But the sample costs too much for its quality, at the moment.
Ok, it is recorded well, the sound is direct, "near" and I like it

BUT

*** No multirelease, so if you play staccatos you have the harp effect. Very bad, trust me..***

Try Widor Toccata from Symphony 5 played staccato.. fake result in Caen.

ahh, the extended bombarde 32 is a blasphemy to Cavaillé-coll, it sounds as a broken Ranquette 32. (Metz extened bombarde 32 is absolutely wonderful)

METZ IS THE WINNER (for now)
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Re: Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Postby PeterD » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:40 am

Perhaps we need a decider. Should anyone be in the vicinity of Toulouse with a Macbook Pro and a couple of Shure's we might have this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeCB1OmusPk

Shows a convincing argument for dual touch screens... which would look like this ! ( sorry over 600pix limit)

http://www.xs4all.nl/~twomusic/discogra ... use_l.html

http://www.xs4all.nl/~twomusic/discogra ... use_r.html

Best

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Re: Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Postby Eric Sagmuller » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:08 am

[quote="Aristide"]I tried Caen and I am very disappointed.


*** No multirelease, so if you play staccatos you have the harp effect. Very bad, trust me..***

I checked Jiri's website and confirmed that the Caen does have 3-4 release samples per note.
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Re: Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Postby CHRIS 037 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:43 am

*** No multirelease, so if you play staccatos you have the harp effect. Very bad, trust me..***

I checked Jiri's website and confirmed that the Caen does have 3-4 release samples per note.


The biggest difficulty in using the Caen set is the immense computer power it needs to get the best from it. Perhaps the problems mentioned came from that? I don't notice any of the "harp" effects at all when playing fast notes. However, even with 26 GB RAM and a dual quad-core Mac Pro, I can't play a true full organ and play fast notes without the sound dropping out eventually (after a few seconds). This is with the latency set above 3700 (which fortunately doesn't drag the playing down). The whole organ is loaded in 24-bit.

I am really very happy with the Caen organ.

That said, I have to say that I have never heard the real thing, only recordings of these wonderful French organs, The Caen through headphones sounds essentially the same to me as the recordings of the real thing.

Leo Chris.

BTW: I do have a question, however. Do the samples in the surround (rear) set also have the 3 - 4 releases? I understand from the postings here that some folks use that set only.
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Re: Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Postby Fazioli » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:04 pm

I heard the organ in real and I can say that Jiri did do a great job. it's amazing how close it comes to the original.
Aix is an very good sample-set too, I prefer this one above Metz but thats my taste, anyway they are both no real
Cavaille-Coll organs, Caen is the only HW 3 Cavaille-Coll sample-set so far.
Last edited by Fazioli on Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Postby Aristide » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:12 pm

Eric Sagmuller wrote:I checked Jiri's website and confirmed that the Caen does have 3-4 release samples per note.

Yes, but when I loaded the sample set I didn't hear any multi-release..
Of course if you play the organ in a normal-slow way you think everything is fine.
But if you really play the organ repertoire you find fast staccato passages (for example with Récit flutes 8,4,2 is very clear) that sound harp-like because the lack of multirelease, or if the multirelease is there dont work.

And I cannot understand why you need a lot of computer power to run Caen. (perhaps 24 bit?)
I remember the full sample set with all loop, all release, 16 bit, stereo, perfectly fit in 8 gb of ram and run very well on the Quadcore 2,2 ghz system.

Are we talking about the same sample set? or is I that missed something?
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Re: Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Postby Eric Sagmuller » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:28 pm

This is the one I'm and I think the others are talking about. The first paragraph mentions the multiple release samples. In 16 bit without the surround it appears 8GB is ok. 24 bit and then the surround can easily triple or quadruple that.

http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/organs/Fcae ... hots.0.asp
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Re: Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Postby bcollins » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:54 pm

Aristide wrote:Are we talking about the same sample set? or is I that missed something?


When you are loading the organ in the 'Rank Audio Output Routing' screen are you choosing to ''Load all available samples (max realism, most memory)' under Multiple release sample handling mode ?

Also do you have 'Disable multiple sample loop playback?' unchecked in the 'Configure General Options' / Audio Engine screen?
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Re: Caen v Metz (v Aix un Provence)

Postby Aristide » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:51 am

All options was ok when I tried it! (Metz worked well on that system.. only Caen had the harp-effect problem)
I am really very afraid to spend more than 500 euros for a sample set with multirelease not working.
It is a pity because the instrument is really nice.

Perhaps the "sorround" version works better? I tried only the "wet" version
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