It is currently Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:35 am


'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instruments

A discussion forum for anything even marginally Hauptwerk-related.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

FrankFrontera

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:39 pm
  • Location: Canada

'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instruments

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 12:24 pm

Hello fellow Hauptwerk users,

I am presenting the keygrid concept - a new way to play contrapuntal/ keyboard music.

A keygrid (as opposed to keyboard) is a contrapuntal instrument with the notes arranged vertically in perfect fourths, and horizontally as chromatic. It is playable with two hands like a piano [or organ, harpsichord, or any other keyboard instrument], but with a system of notes matching the guitar in perfect 4ths tuning, a bass guitar, double bass, etc.

As a new standard, electronic and hybrid models will take centre stage in the upcoming musical era. I anticipate Hauptwerk systems will be immensely integrated. I utilize the Hauptwerk here, with the Sonus Paradisi: Cembalo Ruckers Model sample sets. In some upcoming videos, I play chorales with the Velesovo set.

http://www.reddit.com/r/keygrid

Summary Document:
https://bit.ly/3yEdkyP
---
I have posted more videos on my youtube.. with more to come.

Impertinence, HWV 494, G.F. Handel [on keygrid]
https://youtu.be/GsB3AJyUCYg
--
The last of my videos on the Push units (at least for now). The next releases will be on a cleaner, more presentable instrument setup [LPXs]. Upcoming is an Introduction video to the keygrid concept, educational tutorials, and more. Please subscribe, like, and share!

Bourrée in E minor - J.S. Bach, BWV 996 [on keygrid]
https://youtu.be/ROCOt0CLsY8

Looking forward to your thoughts on the keygrid concept - and how Hauptwerk will integrate into this new way of playing music.
Last edited by FrankFrontera on Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 7283
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 1:04 pm

How would one play chords? Would seem to have quite a learning curve.

Rgds,
Ed
Offline
User avatar

FrankFrontera

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:39 pm
  • Location: Canada

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 pm

engrssc wrote:How would one play chords? Would seem to have quite a learning curve.

Rgds,
Ed


The five horizontal intervals are chromatic, and the next row above also chromatic, but a fourth above.
so, for one example -a major triad with the LH:
your pinky would be on the tonic
your thumb on the third
in the next row above, your middle finger on the fifth

There are other combinations possible for the same notes, as there are repeated notes like there are on guitar and similarly tuned instruments.In the last video you can see me playing some chords at cadences - nevertheless I will do a video on chords at some point!
Offline

mcloney1

Member

  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:11 pm

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 3:15 pm

Now these are my thoughts on this sort of thing so everyone else can think what they want of this and this is not to discourage you from developing and trying to proglemate such a system, but I will try to take a more realistic and reasonable approach to this, but first, it is not that I don't like this sort of thing (on the contrary I must admit I do find it interesting to see people develop alternatives to the current standard keyboard layout, which I obviously is not the most logical layout of a musical keyboard). But when you say "As a new standard, electronic and hybrid models will take centre stage in the upcoming musical era" it would imply to me at least (perhaps some others would interpret this differently) that you mean this to be in the future a major way of playing keyboard music but I personally find a problem with this. First, everyone or a significant portion of the people who have in some way dabbled in keyboard music whether they are professionals who have played their whole life or people who have been playing for two weeks all know a system of keyboard layout which has been around for about 700 years and has not really changed since then. That means that all literature, the knowledge of professionals and etc. applies solely to such a system whether it is flawed or not. And to attempt to "convert" everyone to a brand new system is I think unrealistic as it would render useless all such things, things that in many cases people have spent much of their life dedicated to. I think it is also safe to assume that in general while we humans in certain societies go though fads and all these other sorts of things, it would be safe to assume that looking at things historically, since the keyboard layout has not changed in the past 700 years, it isn't going to change anytime soon. Next applies mostly to people like me (and im guessing a number of other organists also) interested in historical techniques and performance practices, but a new system, one that all the great masters would have never even probably conceived of, would render useless all things related to historical keyboard techniques. So main thing is whether the current standard is flawed or not, its been around for such a long time, and i don't think its going to change anytime in my lifetime. Again, I'm not discouraging you, but I think that saying such a system will be the standard for the next musical era is quite a bold claim, and historically like in the case of Paul von Jankó, even though he arguable developed a better system, almost no one was willing to change what they were accustomed to, what their teachers passed onto them, and what they would pass onto the next generation.
Offline
User avatar

FrankFrontera

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:39 pm
  • Location: Canada

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 6:11 pm

mcloney1 wrote:Now these are my thoughts on this sort of thing so everyone else can think what they want of this and this is not to discourage you from developing and trying to proglemate such a system, but I will try to take a more realistic and reasonable approach to this, but first, it is not that I don't like this sort of thing (on the contrary I must admit I do find it interesting to see people develop alternatives to the current standard keyboard layout, which I obviously is not the most logical layout of a musical keyboard). But when you say "As a new standard, electronic and hybrid models will take centre stage in the upcoming musical era" it would imply to me at least (perhaps some others would interpret this differently) that you mean this to be in the future a major way of playing keyboard music but I personally find a problem with this. First, everyone or a significant portion of the people who have in some way dabbled in keyboard music whether they are professionals who have played their whole life or people who have been playing for two weeks all know a system of keyboard layout which has been around for about 700 years and has not really changed since then. That means that all literature, the knowledge of professionals and etc. applies solely to such a system whether it is flawed or not.


Hey mcloney1, thank you for your reply. You actually bring up some of the best arguments against this system - that the keyboard is the oldest system, has the largest infrastructure around it, which will perpetuate into the future to degree. How I would counter it is that students, especially the youth, will learn music and contrapuntal playing at an accelerated rate than at the piano.

Take a look at my learning. I started exploring how to do this just under 3 years ago. I am (at least self-assessed) at a Level 4, pushing level 5, in terms of piano material. I am 29 now. That may not be too outstanding compared to other adult rates, but this is a different system than the piano, and I have taught it to myself. I will push more and more over time on the keygrid, but imagine the capability of the next generations that are taught at youth. I describe WHY there are several advantages the keygrid has over the keyboard in the summary doc, and will likely discuss them in an upcoming video at some point.

mcloney1 wrote:And to attempt to "convert" everyone to a brand new system is I think unrealistic as it would render useless all such things, things that in many cases people have spent much of their life dedicated to. I think it is also safe to assume that in general while we humans in certain societies go though fads and all these other sorts of things, it would be safe to assume that looking at things historically, since the keyboard layout has not changed in the past 700 years, it isn't going to change anytime soon. Next applies mostly to people like me (and im guessing a number of other organists also) interested in historical techniques and performance practices, but a new system, one that all the great masters would have never even probably conceived of, would render useless all things related to historical keyboard techniques. So main thing is whether the current standard is flawed or not, its been around for such a long time, and i don't think its going to change anytime in my lifetime. Again, I'm not discouraging you, but I think that saying such a system will be the standard for the next musical era is quite a bold claim, and historically like in the case of Paul von Jankó, even though he arguable developed a better system, almost no one was willing to change what they were accustomed to, what their teachers passed onto them, and what they would pass onto the next generation.


Again, your points are quite strong - but I will draw some different analogies. We rode horses for thousands of years. The transition to gasoline/diesel vehicles happened relatively quickly upon introduction, a few decades, depending on which developed country in discussion. Systems developed around it. People still ride horses, but hardly to the same degree as a main means of transport.

The general consensus now is that we will move out of fossil fuel systems for vehicles at some point and into electric and other technologies. Electric cars are on the road now and the transition has begun. More electric car stations, more and more technicians are getting trained to deal with electric cars. But we wont see it happen overnight. Both gas, diesel, and electric cars exist on the road - but slowly we are headed more away from fossil fuel cars due to various reasons.

As the drips of water hit the rock, it slowly conquers. Although I think things will pick up faster than expected once a few videos go viral, whether they be one of my upcoming videos or someone else's, that begins playing the keygrid.

I have posted 10* different pieces https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTyNP9XENOzefzDTTjlh5o3kwWOKcY2O3at the time of this post -. I have many more coming, including an introduction/ explanation type video, modeled after the summary document - and eventually educational tutorials,etc. For those onlooking, I highly recommend reading the summary document https://bit.ly/3yEdkyP to understand more.

So I will do what I can, and it is my firm conviction that the best is yet to come!
Offline

larason2

Member

  • Posts: 382
  • Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 pm

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 6:44 pm

Interesting concept! It definitely wins the prize for clever use of launch pads! It reminds me of the microtonal organs from the 70’s. Kudos to you for spending the time to learn some very tricky music on it! For myself, I would have to abandon my organ teacher and learn how to play all over again, so I don’t think I would be picking this up anytime soon. If I had a launchpad, I might experiment with micro tonality though!
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 7283
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 6:49 pm

And the connection to Hauptwerk is less apparent?

Rgds,
Ed
Offline
User avatar

FrankFrontera

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:39 pm
  • Location: Canada

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 12:52 pm

larason2 wrote:Interesting concept! It definitely wins the prize for clever use of launch pads! It reminds me of the microtonal organs from the 70’s. Kudos to you for spending the time to learn some very tricky music on it! For myself, I would have to abandon my organ teacher and learn how to play all over again, so I don’t think I would be picking this up anytime soon. If I had a launchpad, I might experiment with micro tonality though!


Thank you! It totally makes sense - I agree it is not urgent in any way for most keyboard players to transition to this, unless they desire to do so. The keygrid, as setup in my videos, represents in its own way the keyboard notes and is not micro-tonal - I do not currently desire exploring micro-tonality, but could see it as interesting and holding potential.

For me, I didn't want to take the time to learn the keyboard when I began my counterpoint studies, so I began to learn on the keygrid setup as it is isomorphic to the guitar patterns I had already knew.

And the connection to Hauptwerk is less apparent?

Rgds,
Ed


Well, it is the same apparency of connection that any midi keyboard has to whatever VSTs you'd like it to play.
Offline
User avatar

JulianMoney-Kyrle

Member

  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:23 pm
  • Location: Calne, Wiltshire, UK

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostThu Sep 23, 2021 8:56 am

This is all very well for simple two-part counterpoint, but how would you cope with a four- or five-part fugue? How would you play the music of Chopin, Debussy, Rachmaninov, Beethoven...? With such small keys, how do substitute one finger for another when you are holding one (or several) notes while playing others using the same hand?

This seems to me to be a basic MIDI system which might be more straightforward for a guitarist to learn than a conventional keyboard layout, but ultimately rather limited in terms of what you could play on it.

Most composers wrote with specific instruments in mind - not only the sound, and the compass, but also technical considerations of how it is played. It is not very clear that there is anything that you can do with this system that you can't do with a conventional keyboard, and plenty of things that are straightforward with the latter that would be almost impossible.
Offline
User avatar

FrankFrontera

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:39 pm
  • Location: Canada

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostThu Sep 23, 2021 12:12 pm

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:This is all very well for simple two-part counterpoint, but how would you cope with a four- or five-part fugue? How would you play the music of Chopin, Debussy, Rachmaninov, Beethoven...? With such small keys, how do substitute one finger for another when you are holding one (or several) notes while playing others using the same hand?


The answer to this becomes more apparent as you actually play this type of layout. Substitutions in this system are needed less often than on the keyboard, and even when utilized, they are far easier as there are repeated notes available elsewhere on the grid. I have Bach chorale videos upcoming, where I play 3-parts on RH (and 1 part with LH) without issue. As skills develop further, I will be able to approach more of those type of works.. but some time for skill development is in order as that is no small feat even on the keyboard.

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:This seems to me to be a basic MIDI system which might be more straightforward for a guitarist to learn than a conventional keyboard layout, but ultimately rather limited in terms of what you could play on it.

Most composers wrote with specific instruments in mind - not only the sound, and the compass, but also technical considerations of how it is played.


Note that the current setup is intended for initial developments and proof of concept at a cost-effective level. It has the near equivalent of the baroque harpsichord range. Although there are few instruments available, mainly in the United States from some independent companies - that offer larger range and capability, I have not tried them yet. They are expensive - see https://www.starrlabs.com/product/zboard/ and I wouldn't want to buy it at that price, and I would want to test it first anyway.

As for acoustic sound, that is up to instrument manufacturers / engineers. They could replicate the piano or harpsichord design for the sound as early prototypes for acoustic models. For hybrid and electric models, the sound is about as relevant as the VSTs you play on the keyboard. I encourage the discussion on instrument manufacturers developing in this direction, including subjects like velocity, in the summary document https://bit.ly/3yEdkyP.

Everything else I am discussing about the keygrid, including the technical considerations, applies towards and anticipates this.

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:It is not very clear that there is anything that you can do with this system that you can't do with a conventional keyboard, and plenty of things that are straightforward with the latter that would be almost impossible.


This is a rather quick, expected type of judgement that comes from many keyboard players, including earlier here in this thread. I'm going to call this the 'Keyboard Defense'. And don't get me wrong here - almost all of my favorite composers were or are keyboard players.

The opposite is the case, things are more straightforward on the keygrid, that's why I started playing it. And those that take the time to begin on the keygrid will see its potential the most, and will be the ones to prove it.

It is not clear, yet. What I am working on is making this clearer, and it will take time. You will see it in my online publications, and with others as they join in. It is an educational initiative for the music world.
Offline
User avatar

JulianMoney-Kyrle

Member

  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:23 pm
  • Location: Calne, Wiltshire, UK

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostThu Sep 23, 2021 8:39 pm

I am still not convinced that this would be an easier way to play complex keyboard music, and it doesn't sound as though you have any video of yourself, or anybody else, doing so.

Personally I think I would have trouble finding my way around a keygrid as I don't look at my fingers when I play, and the layout of black and white keys provides a tactile means of orienting myself anywhere on the seven-and-a-half octaves of a piano keyboard, and also with my feet on an organ pedalboard. Admittedly I am also a touch typist, but there are only a limited number of keys on a computer keyboard, and typing is a great deal simpler than playing a musical instrument.

Your analogy with horses / cars and fossil fuels / renewables is fundamentally flawed as what we are discussing here is essentially a matter of standards, and these are very resistant to change. Consider the Dvorak typewriter keyboard layout, which has been around for 85 years and is a great deal more efficient than QWERTY, itself originally designed to slow the typist down to prevent they keys jamming. Despite Dvorak being an optional layout for every Windows installation you would be hard-pressed to find anybody using it simply because QWERTY has already become universal. You would have to persuade everybody to replace the many pianos currently in existence and companies such as Steinway to redesign what they have perfected over hundreds of years. And where would you get music teachers from? It's not going to happen.

In particular I don't think it is something that would particularly appeal to Hauptwerk users. Hauptwerk is a system that is designed to simulate the experience of playing a real pipe organ, and its great strength is that it does this quite well. It is primarily targeted at organists who have limited access to a real instrument, or who want to be able to play and practise at home. However, I don't think there are many users who feel it is a substitute for the real thing.

You say that you have so far spent nearly three years learning to play on a keygrid. That is quite a geeky thing to do. But just as Dvorak typists are unable to use a normal computer keyboard, you have also acquired a skill that is not transferrable. You will never have the pleasure of playing a decent piano (electric pianos, no matter how sophisticated, don't come close), or a pipe organ, or even a harpsichord. You won't be able to sit down at the piano in a friend's house and make music together, or have a spontaneous sing-song around the battered instruments that you can still find in country pubs. Do you seriously think that the solution is to convince the rest of the world to change?
Offline
User avatar

FrankFrontera

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:39 pm
  • Location: Canada

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostThu Sep 23, 2021 9:48 pm

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote: I am still not convinced that this would be an easier way to play complex keyboard music, and it doesn't sound as though you have any video of yourself, or anybody else, doing so.


My goal is not to convince you specifically. It is to introduce the idea.. which I am proving step by step. Think what you like.

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:
Personally I think I would have trouble finding my way around a keygrid as I don't look at my fingers when I play, and the layout of black and white keys provides a tactile means of orienting myself anywhere on the seven-and-a-half octaves of a piano keyboard, and also with my feet on an organ pedalboard. Admittedly I am also a touch typist, but there are only a limited number of keys on a computer keyboard, and typing is a great deal simpler than playing a musical instrument.


Then personally, the keygrid may just not be for you. Again, I am talking about the future generations, immediate and post. Tactile means can easily be experimented and developed. You are ruling out future developments, which is a major component of what I am discussing. I am not discussing the instrument I am currently playing as the standard, I am using it to demonstrate the concept. The keygrid layout and its development in new models will be the developing standard.

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:
Your analogy with horses / cars and fossil fuels / renewables is fundamentally flawed as what we are discussing here is essentially a matter of standards, and these are very resistant to change. Consider the Dvorak typewriter keyboard layout, which has been around for 85 years and is a great deal more efficient than QWERTY, itself originally designed to slow the typist down to prevent they keys jamming. Despite Dvorak being an optional layout for every Windows installation you would be hard-pressed to find anybody using it simply because QWERTY has already become universal. You would have to persuade everybody to replace the many pianos currently in existence and companies such as Steinway to redesign what they have perfected over hundreds of years. And where would you get music teachers from? It's not going to happen.


One analogy vs another. More Keyboard Defense. Where did music teachers come about for the keyboard? Does whatever you answer that with rule out what may happen for future instruments? Who decides the standards? Are standards absolute or by degree? Do they change over time? Is the keyboard as the musical standard eternal? Are you saying the keyboard is the musical standard forever and ever? What I am saying is that the next one, however long it takes, will be the keygrid.

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:
In particular I don't think it is something that would particularly appeal to Hauptwerk users. Hauptwerk is a system that is designed to simulate the experience of playing a real pipe organ, and its great strength is that it does this quite well. It is primarily targeted at organists who have limited access to a real instrument, or who want to be able to play and practise at home. However, I don't think there are many users who feel it is a substitute for the real thing.


I am utilizing Hauptwerk now with this instrument. You are not considering how things expand into the future. Will Hauptwerk shrink in user-base, or expand?

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:
You say that you have so far spent nearly three years learning to play on a keygrid. That is quite a geeky thing to do.


:lol: This kind of statement sums up where you're coming from.

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:
But just as Dvorak typists are unable to use a normal computer keyboard, you have also acquired a skill that is not transferrable. You will never have the pleasure of playing a decent piano (electric pianos, no matter how sophisticated, don't come close), or a pipe organ, or even a harpsichord. You won't be able to sit down at the piano in a friend's house and make music together, or have a spontaneous sing-song around the battered instruments that you can still find in country pubs. Do you seriously think that the solution is to convince the rest of the world to change?


Who is trying to convince who? I am not asking anyone to change anything 8) It seems more so that you are trying to convince others with your skepticism. You have no idea to what degree, and with what modifications I would find your examples musically valuable - It is a bit of nuance, if you're able to perceive it.

Your arguments are flawed and have no basis on calling it a non-transferable skill. You seem quite unaware of where technology and the world is headed. This is not the 20th century.

Again, for those reading on here: I am not trying to convince. But introducing an idea - and will prove a bit more step by step in my publications. It will hold its own weight as things progress.

It is still early, and time will tell.
Offline
User avatar

JulianMoney-Kyrle

Member

  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:23 pm
  • Location: Calne, Wiltshire, UK

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostFri Sep 24, 2021 1:18 pm

I have raised some issues with the keygrid as a replacement for the traditional keyboard, but you haven't actually addressed any of them, other than by denial and by attacking me personally, neither of which lends authority to what you are saying.

You have, at least, succeeded in introducing me (and probably most people reading this) to the concept of a keygrid. I will await future developments with interest, but very few interesting ideas ever achieve revolutionary status, so I won't be holding my breath.
Offline

mnailor

Member

  • Posts: 891
  • Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:57 pm
  • Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostFri Sep 24, 2021 1:50 pm

Some things to consider when designing a proposed replacement for the traditional keyboard.

A brief intro to the organ might give the impression that keyboard players press buttons at the right time, and hold them until it's time to release the note. Even for the organ -- one of the least touch-sensitive keyboard instruments -- this is hardly even close to the artistry involved in musical keyboard touch.

Yes, for an electronic organ or electric action pipe organ, buttons are plausible enough for a beginner before you try to learn artistic phrasing, agogic accents, all the many types of connections between notes/chords and the space of time between them, and the effect of fingering sequence on the articulation for certain traditions. Those are all facilitated by the traditional keyboard layout, maybe mostly because that's what the composers wrote for.

But most important a keyboardist plays *levers*, not buttons. The levers are connected to a mechanism that matters, for a tracker organ or clavichord, but much more so for a grand piano. The latter's mechanics are very little changed since the 19th century and most of the piano literature depends on it working the way it does to enable the nuances of the music.

Substituting buttons here is a little like saying a violinist should strum the strings, since that's enough to play chords if their left hand is nimble enough. All that bowing is just pointlessly hard!

The traditional layout of keys, which did evolve a bit since early organs moved away from big levers sticking out of a cabinet that you pounded with your fists, has been stable for centuries other than minor wrinkles like short octaves and split #/b keys. It has important properties that a matrix of buttons doesn't provide, even if the buttons are touch-sensitive.

That's aside from the benefits of having a common layout for students to learn the organ, piano, harpsichord, clavichord, and harmonium. Forgot the accordion.

The piano is the example that totally breaks alternative keyboard layouts. A student of the piano, attempting to reach the point where they can play even the simplest Chopin work, has to know how to use dozens of touches (all depending on that key lever, hammer throw physics, and escapement lever for repeated notes), how to use just the right arm weight to hep control tone from massive to leggiero, how to lead the hand with the elbow for lateral jumps or to help get the right degree of legato, when to rotate the forearm to pull slightly on one side of the hand to help get different note dynamics in the same chord, how to use movements of the wrist to assist in everything from playing octaves to repeated chords to pianissimo. It's just not all done by fingers.

I could drone on some more, but the point is, the keyboard layout and key lever mechanism are essential to most of two centuries of piano music, and no, there's not enough music written in just the 21st century to compensate for giving all that up.

Back to the organ, being able to reach 2 or 3 manuals (keyboards) close enough together to play notes using the thumb of the same hand playing on the next manual up is necessary for some music, so keyboards have to be designed to be close together but still not interfere with each other. Some organs need 4 - 5 manuals (okay, 7), so space and reach matter. Does a pedalboard made up as a grid work well? At least you only need one pedalboard.

The keygrid is certainly an interesting idea.
Offline
User avatar

FrankFrontera

Member

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:39 pm
  • Location: Canada

Re: 'keygrid' instrument setup - utilizing Hauptwerk instrum

PostFri Sep 24, 2021 2:02 pm

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:I have raised some issues with the keygrid as a replacement for the traditional keyboard, but you haven't actually addressed any of them, other than by denial and by attacking me personally, neither of which lends authority to what you are saying.


I addressed every one of your points - you are making a false statement. I went after your issues, and as to how you present them. I cannot attack you personally - only your opinion, how you present your words here on the internet. I know nothing else about you.

Some of your other statements, on the other hand, seemed to have no good purpose in this discussion. Yet you think I'm attacking you personally :roll:

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:You have, at least, succeeded in introducing me (and probably most people reading this) to the concept of a keygrid. I will await future developments with interest, but very few interesting ideas ever achieve revolutionary status, so I won't be holding my breath.


Success.Your skepticism is quite noted, and you'll have many friends who agree with you for a decent time. On-readers: note the timetable I am suggesting is not this year, or next, maybe not this decade -but it's coming.
Next

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests