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Windows 11 is released October 5...

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seh52

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Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 12:07 am

HW 4.2 runs great on my Windows 10 Home computer.

Will HW 4.2 continue to run as well if I allow the computer to update to Windows 11?
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engrssc

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Re: Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 6:54 am

Why do you want to use Win11?

Rgds,
Ed
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jkinkennon

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Re: Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 8:53 am

I've seen no issues running Hauptwerk on a pair of Windows 11 machines. One is a 14-core i9 with 128 GB of memory and the other is an i7 laptop with just 16 GB of memory. I also run Fusion, the full Adobe suite, and a number of programming IDEs on the i9 and haven't seen any compatibility issues.
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engrssc

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Re: Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 9:26 am

Assume you are running HW - V6, John, not V4.2? What advantage did you find running W11 over running W10? So far I haven't found anything other than to say it works.

Rgds,
Ed
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RWatson

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Re: Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 2:15 pm

Personally, I would not upgrade to Windows 11 if everything is working well now; however, I have been on the beta testing team since early April (certainly not on my Hauptwerk machine or even my main computer until a couple of months ago) and am witness to some major reworking of the kernel processes in that operating system. I taught one of the major team leaders (of Windows 11 development) Physics and Calculus and he asked me to participate. I did.

One of the major changes in Windows 11 background processes in the kernel is the prioritizing and demoting of active processes that are occurring. The algorithm favours more important processes and takes away significant CPU cycles from processes that are either not as urgent or are in a quiescent state and gives those cycles to more demanding processes. Statistically this is making a real difference from the time slicing model used previously. There is also much faster task switching when the CPU has to move among active processor threads. This is a simplistic explanation.
For us in the Hauptwerk community, this should be a win-win scenario.

So, I just rebuilt our church's hybrid pipe organ Hauptwerk computer (on another thread). I thought long and hard what to do with respect to Windows 11 - especially since it's not even officially released yet. I decided yes because I had been working with Windows 11 for so many months now - even putting it on my personal Ryzen Threadripper 3975WX at home. What possibly could go wrong?

I don't know why a page file (or sysmain) would be so effective in ruining Windows 11 audio (via MOTU AVB), but that was relatively easily fixed (but why did it have to be a problem in the first place?)

I am just now finishing up moving everything from playing and testing from my Roland RX-2000 keyboard to the 4-manual stack of the proper organ. Weird (and powerful) feeling playing a 34-rank pipe organ with 15 stereo pairs of audio from a keyboard. We're talking full floor and windows shaking organ.

One of the last steps was connecting the keyboards to the new computer. (ominous ... what could go wrong?) The pedalboard and stop control works (old fashioned 5-pin midi out) but all of the keyboards work through USB.

These are Classic organ CMK-3b keyboards. They are recognized through an old laptop - still using USB - but the new 5950x ASUS motherboard they could not be recognized - not any of USB 2.0, 3.1, 3.2. Plugging in any USB cable causes the green "heartbeat" light on the back of each keyboard - normally 'beating' at 1Hz to freeze on for about a second and then rapidly flash. And that's as far as it goes - no computer connection via USB. The Internet, strangely, was of no help. The existing 5-pin MIDI in/out works, but it's all set up for USB and I would have to redo all the keyboard connections and get another MIDI device since the pipe organ relay is using most of the existing MIDI output.

MidiOx doesn't see the output - and neither does Hauptwerk - obviously.

Are there different kinds of USB on older computers? I don't think so. Same 4-pin designations. What does the new motherboard not like about the (8-year-old) CMK-3 keyboards? The +5vdc is 5.10vdc - too high?

The Roland keyboard was connected using the same USB cable from the new motherboard, and it worked fine.

Anyway, there are solutions but I don't like the solutions. What do you do when faced with such strange USB behaviour?
Has anything ever happened like that to you? It's such out-of-the-blue problems that add to my grey hair.
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engrssc

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Re: Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostSat Sep 25, 2021 3:52 pm

:Thanks for the W11 info update, RWatson. .

Rgds,
Ed
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jkinkennon

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Re: Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostSun Sep 26, 2021 2:09 pm

RWatson wrote:These are Classic organ CMK-3b keyboards. They are recognized through an old laptop - still using USB - but the new 5950x ASUS motherboard they could not be recognized - not any of USB 2.0, 3.1, 3.2. Plugging in any USB cable causes the green "heartbeat" light on the back of each keyboard - normally 'beating' at 1Hz to freeze on for about a second and then rapidly flash. And that's as far as it goes - no computer connection via USB.


It would be good if someone could check the operation of the CMK-3b keyboards with Windows 11 as it is highly unlikely that the problem is with Windows 11 or an ASUS motherboard. Or if there's an issue it could surely be resolved by verifying the correct USB drivers are installed. For troubleshooting it would be good to try other USB 2.0 devices on the same port and to try the keyboards on 2.0 ports via a 2.0 hub if necessary.

I did find one USB 2.0 improvement in Windows 11 that I have never seen with Windows 10. When testing MIDI encoders (which are invariably USB 2.0 due to their MCU's requirements) I noticed that an encoder which was rebooted or power cycled would cause MIDI-OX to detect the encoder change, reopen drivers, and continue displaying the encoder data. Under previous Windows versions MIDI-OX would invariably hang and need to be restarted. I'd be curious if others have observed the same. This indicates better handling of USB 2.0 devices.

We move along with software updates such as Windows 11 or Hauptwerk 6 to benefit from improvements the developers make to their products. No one wants to be first to adopt new technology and for sure no one wants to be last. Those of us who aren't operating our computer in a critical environment like a public venue often lead the way and others follow when they are comfortable with the potential risks. Nothing wrong with either approach but ultimately Windows 11 offers improved security and improved efficiencies under the covers.
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RWatson

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Re: Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostSun Sep 26, 2021 7:57 pm

jkinkennon wrote:It would be good if someone could check the operation of the CMK-3b keyboards with Windows 11 as it is highly unlikely that the problem is with Windows 11 or an ASUS motherboard. Or if there's an issue it could surely be resolved by verifying the correct USB drivers are installed. For troubleshooting it would be good to try other USB 2.0 devices on the same port and to try the keyboards on 2.0 ports via a 2.0 hub if necessary.


Thank you for your reply! It is so appreciated.

I did try:
    - every (external) USB port - from 2.0 to 3.1 to 3.2, but concentrated especially on 2.0.
    - other devices in virtually all of the USB ports; tried 1 printer, 3 mice, 2 keyboards and 2 external HD. They all worked in all USB ports - normally except the aforementioned CMK-3b classic organ keyboards (tried all 4 organ keyboards)
    - a USB hub as an intermediator buffer (USB 2.0?)

Yes, I think it's a driver issue, but how do you 'update' - on in this case, retrograde - a USB in W11 without affecting all the other USB devices that are working normally? And, should you even do so?

Perhaps, if I don't resolve this in the next few hours, I'll just rewire the existing USB connections to use instead the daisy chained 5-pin MIDI connectors of old and feed that result into a new MIDI interface - like a MOTU MIDI. I do know that the 5-pin MIDI from the Classic keyboards works.

The only thing that doesn't work is the organ keyboard stack.
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jkinkennon

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Re: Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 9:49 am

I did a Google search on "AMD 5950 USB issues" and found quite a number of entries about USB disconnects and fixes. It might be worth pursuing some of these articles for potential solutions. I had used a couple of recent "STRIX" ASUS motherboards with Intel processors but not with the AMD 5950 which sounds like a great choice for HW. Good luck!
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kaspencer

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Re: Windows 11 is released October 5...

PostFri Oct 15, 2021 11:14 am

Good afternoon all.

This is a very interesting post to me as I shall quite soon be upgrading my Hauptwerk organ, computer hardware, operating system version, and Hauptwerk version. The final destination will be Hauptwerk v6 under Windows 11, on an new PC, Intel i9, 64or128GB.

As well as its dedicated organ PC, my instrument also has five Arduino microcontrollers:
- two Arduino Dues (driving stop jambs with automated stop labelling), both USB 3;
- one PJRC Teensy 4.1 (driving controls for organ loading/stepper/audio-MIDI recording) USB 3;
- one Arduino Mega under mocoLUFA (driving the keyboard stack & thumb & toe pistons) USB 3;
- one Arduino Nano (driving the pedalboard & two continuous pedal controls: exrpession & crescendo)
. connected via a 5-pin DIN into a MIDI>USB Hub.

So I shall dsicover whether those possible Windows 11 + AMD + ASUS cpu or motherboard issues are replicated on the Intel platform.

Maybe I have fun & games to look forward to!

I'll let you know how it goes, but it will be several weeks yet before I start.

Best wsihes,

Kenneth Spencer
Kenneth Spencer
Music Site: http://www.my-music.mywire.org
Project Page: http://www.my-music.mywire.org/opus_ii.htm
Books on Hauptwerk and Computing; Novation Launchpad overlays: http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/kaspencer
YouTube Videos: http://www.youtube.com/kaspenceruk

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