It is currently Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:46 pm


Should I stop worrying?

A discussion forum for anything even marginally Hauptwerk-related.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

caper1

Member

  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:28 pm
  • Location: Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada

Should I stop worrying?

PostFri May 20, 2022 3:14 pm

My Hauptwerk system was set up back in 2011, using the Basic Version 4.2.1. My son built me a beautiful new computer with Windows 7, 8 g. of RAM etc. according to the recommended equipment needed at the time. I have a three manual Classic set up and have enjoyed this now for over a decade. It works perfectly. Every now and then I think I'd like to get that cathedral organ that needs more memory etc. But then I come to my senses. Should I worry that eventually I'll have to upgrade to continue to enjoy Hauptwerk, or, as I would prefer, continue to use what I have -- at least until something serious breaks down?
Offline

larason2

Member

  • Posts: 534
  • Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 pm

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostFri May 20, 2022 5:02 pm

I would recommend staying with what you have until it dies. Most people who have upgraded to 5/6/7 haven’t regretted it, but there’s a few people who have had serious buyers remorse, especially if you have sets that aren’t 5/6/7 compatible.
Offline

rayjcar

Member

  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:56 am
  • Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostFri May 20, 2022 6:29 pm

I have been running Hauptwerk on a Dell XPS since 2009, and it's still chugging along, with an upgrade to HW7. I did replace the two mechanical hard drives in the RAID array with solid state Samsungs, and I upgraded the memory to 48 Gigabytes. I would strongly recommend making a complete system image on an external hard drive, using the Windows 7 backup/restore functionality, as well as a start-up disc. The backup image will contain everything: operating system, applications, and data files. If your hard drive crashes, the image can be restored to a new drive. I would also recommend an uninterruptible power supply with a surge suppressor to prevent any frying if you have a power surge, and also guard against any data corruption if the disk is writing data during a power failure. If you take these two precautions, you can keep going indefinitely. My experience with PCs is that once you get past the infant mortality stage (and you're long past that), drive failures are the main worry.
Check how many memory slots you have. When your computer was built, you may have had only 2 Gigabytes per slot. A memory upgrade with newer cards would allow future upgrade to larger organs.

Ray
Offline

caper1

Member

  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:28 pm
  • Location: Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostFri May 20, 2022 7:36 pm

Thanks to those who replied. It's always good to have your ideas confirmed. I'll take your advice and hopefully continue to enjoy the organ for a few more years with what I've got. Thanks again.
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 14329
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostSat May 21, 2022 4:08 am

larason2 wrote:Most people who have upgraded to 5/6/7 haven’t regretted it, but there’s a few people who have had serious buyers remorse, especially if you have sets that aren’t 5/6/7 compatible.


Just to clarify that point a bit, in case other people might be put off upgrading: to my knowledge only a tiny number of sample sets aren't compatible with v5+ -- all sample sets from all of the major producers are available in a compatible form:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17833#p133683

v7 does have lots of major improvements above v4, and we always appreciate people upgrading, but of course if you're happy with v4 for now then that's absolutely fine too.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Offline

Antoni Scott

Member

  • Posts: 938
  • Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:18 pm

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 7:49 am

Upgrading from Version 4.2 to Version 7 has its upside and its downside as does all technology. The upside is that Version 7 has improved audio realism (isn't that what we really all want) and the downside is cost and the individuals technical ability or inability to upgrade. Some Hauptwerk owners aren't computer savvy and are only interested in playing the organ sample sets.
Cost of upgrading could be that you are finding that your existing equipment can't be upgraded (too old even though it is working fine with Version 4.2) so you'll be looking at an entire new computer which will be a high performance version with lots of RAM and associated cost. Also your compatable touch sensitive monitors and audio sound card may need to be replaced also. I was informed that mine were not upgradable. If your not computer savvy you'll be looking at employing the epertise of a Hauptwerk consultant to do it for you. If you are computer savvy you will be ahead. If you are just starting out, then the choice is only Version 7.

Losing sample sets is a real issue as many of my sample sets were not transferable to Version 7, something I was not aware of before deciding to migrate.

Although I asked many times on the Forum for a definitive comparison of the audio increase features from Version 4.2 to 5,6 or 7 , none were available, except opinions. I was able to dig into my archives (my recordings posted on Contrebombarde.com and Youtube) over the years of the Inspired Acoustics Esztergom and myself playing the Chorale from Boellman's Suite Gothique as an example. With this sample set, I was pretty sure that the stop selection was the same on all three versions. The first 2012 recording is Hauptwerk Version 4.0, the second is Version 4.2.1 and the third recording is Version 7. All three are probably using the same stops so the difference would be the Hauptwerk software and the last, maybe the influence of the newer software and sound card. Although each version shows audio/realism differences , in my opinion the difference between 4 and 4.2 is more noticeable than 4.2 to 7. just my opinion.

2022 ,Version 7 https://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/51599
2012, Version 4 https://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/7232
2016: Version 4.2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pphY020V_lw
Offline

mnailor

Member

  • Posts: 1181
  • Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:57 pm
  • Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 8:24 am

In the following blog post by Sonus Paradisi, the 48k result of test 1 is HW 4.2 audio processing (= HW 7 lower quality).

Compare it to the 48k result of test 3 with HW 7 audio processing (higher quality). There is no question that audio has improved.

https://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/blog/co ... e-in-hw-7/
Offline

mnailor

Member

  • Posts: 1181
  • Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:57 pm
  • Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 8:33 am

Antoni Scott wrote:Losing sample sets is a real issue as many of my sample sets were not transferable to Version 7, something I was not aware of before deciding to migrate.


Please list the producers who didn't upgrade their samplesets to HW 5+.

I had over 60 samplesets, and lost none of them going from 4.2 to 5, when moving to iLok necessitated updates to many samplesets. Going from 5 to 6 and then 7 required no updates to samplesets as far as I know.

Thanks.
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 14329
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 8:40 am

Hello Antoni,

Antoni Scott wrote:Losing sample sets is a real issue as many of my sample sets were not transferable to Version 7, something I was not aware of before deciding to migrate.


To my knowledge the list of encrypted sample sets for which their makers never released v5+ versions is tiny -- mainly just one or two small producers who are no longer active. Are you sure that the sample sets you're referring to aren't available for v7? Have you contacted the relevant producers to check?

N.B. It was only v4 *encrypted* sample sets that needed to be reissued for v5+. Non-encrypted v4 sample sets can be used directly in v5+. If you had any non-encrypted sample sets installed on your v4 computer which aren't yet installed on your new v7 PC then all you need to do is to install them ("File | Install ...").

Which specific encrypted sample sets are you referring to? Before upgrading, you mentioned to us that you had only three encrypted v4 sample sets ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19814&start=105#p151325 ), and all of those are definitely available for v5+, and I think Francois installed them for you.

Antoni Scott wrote:Although I asked many times on the Forum for a definitive comparison of the audio increase features from Version 4.2 to 5,6 or 7 , none were available, except opinions. I was able to dig into my archives (my recordings posted on Contrebombarde.com and Youtube) over the years of the Inspired Acoustics Esztergom and myself playing the Chorale from Boellman's Suite Gothique as an example. With this sample set, I was pretty sure that the stop selection was the same on all three versions. The first 2012 recording is Hauptwerk Version 4.0, the second is Version 4.2.1 and the third recording is Version 7. All three are probably using the same stops so the difference would be the Hauptwerk software and the last, maybe the influence of the newer software and sound card. Although each version shows audio/realism differences , in my opinion the difference between 4 and 4.2 is more noticeable than 4.2 to 7. just my opinion.


Given that you have v7 installed, you can actually compare v4.2-quality against v7-quality rather easily:

- On the "General settings | Audio device ..." screen, set the sample rate to 48 kHz (not 96 kHz, since v4 couldn't do 96 kHz).

- Load an organ.

- Go to the "Organ settings | Organ preferences | Audio engine" screen tab, and set the following two settings as follows:
--------- "Audio engine processing quality" = 'Lower'
--------- "Tremulant/wind supply/swell box/relay model quality" = 'Lower'
... then OK the screen. That will effectively give you v4.2-quality, since it uses the v4.2 audio engine quality, and v4.2 model quality. (Technically it's actually still slightly better than v4.2 could achieve, due to other minor quality/realism improvements.)

- Now go back to the "Organ settings | Organ preferences | Audio engine" screen tab again, and this time set the following two settings as follows:
--------- "Audio engine processing quality" = 'Higher'
--------- "Tremulant/wind supply/swell box/relay model quality" = 'Medium'
... then OK the screen. That will give you default v7-quality. (Technically, it's actually still slightly less than v7 can achieve, given that v7 can also use 96 kHz and the 'Higher' model quality.)

I think you'll find the quality difference between them is very noticeable.

Edit: P.S. I see that Mark and I replied at the same time.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Offline

Antoni Scott

Member

  • Posts: 938
  • Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:18 pm

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 9:12 am

Only one version of the Sonus Paradisi Caen was transferrable. My earlier versions of Sonus Paradisi Caen
(non surround) did not transfer. Also the two versions of the Sonus Paradisi Silberman (Direct and Diffuse) did not transfer. A different version transferred. Many of my custom organ sample sets (a 105 stop and a 240 stop custom organ) did not transfer. Several versions of the Forcalquier - extensions I had custom made for me and a custom version of the 4 manual Caen with a 40 rank Wanamaker-like string division did not transfer. The relevant producers have not made these sample sets transferrable.
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 14329
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 9:15 am

Hello Antoni,

If those v4 sample sets weren't encrypted, then all that you need to do is to install them (e.g. from their original installation media/downloads) on your new v7 PC, using "File | Install .." in v7.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Offline

larason2

Member

  • Posts: 534
  • Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 pm

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 9:23 am

I think the main sample sets one would be concerned about losing are FCCLA from Evensong, and as Martin said, the one or two producers that didn’t upgrade to HW5 and appear to be defunct (I don’t remember their names, but I remember hearing about them). I have heard from some users that they use these sample sets regularly.
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 14329
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 9:40 am

Hello larason2,

To my knowledge, Evensong's FCCLA is available in v5+ format to any v4 users who'd purchased it (but it's no longer available for sale in any format for new users): viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17816

The only producer of encrypted v4 sample sets who didn't release v5+ versions that I recall was Midi Pipe Organ in Italy: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18192&p=138276#p138276 ( https://midipipeorgan.com/index.htm ).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Offline

mnailor

Member

  • Posts: 1181
  • Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:57 pm
  • Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 10:16 am

Antoni Scott wrote:Only one version of the Sonus Paradisi Caen was transferrable. My earlier versions of Sonus Paradisi Caen (non surround) did not transfer. Also the two versions of the Sonus Paradisi Silberman (Direct and Diffuse) did not transfer. A different version transferred. Many of my custom organ sample sets (a 105 stop and a 240 stop custom organ) did not transfer. Several versions of the Forcalquier - extensions I had custom made for me and a custom version of the 4 manual Caen with a 40 rank Wanamaker-like string division did not transfer. The relevant producers have not made these sample sets transferrable.


Interesting. Caen Wet should still work, since it was unencrypted, but maybe it used the old dongle for licensing. It was replaced by Caen Surround, so Wet is no longer sold. Freiberg was encrypted so needs a 5+ version, and, like Caen, Jiri simplified the product line there, so there's only Surround and Dry. Freiberg Surround includes Direct, Diffuse, and Rear.

These, and defunct composites, are cases where the producer chose to discontinue support for some samplesets in favor of newer versions, not a loss caused by some imagined problem with the HW versions. In SP's case, you could ask whether there's any upgrade pricing from discontinued versions if you're still missing something.
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 14329
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: Should I stop worrying?

PostWed May 25, 2022 10:24 am

mnailor wrote:Caen Wet should still work, since it was unencrypted, but maybe it used the old dongle for licensing.


Sample sets could/can only use the dongle for licensing if they were encrypted, so that v4 one should still be fully usable directly in v5+.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Next

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests