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UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/2021

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srw647

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Re: UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/

PostTue Feb 09, 2021 10:57 am

The gov.uk website would suggest that a non-UK supplier selling to a UK consumer does have to charge - and register for - UK VAT.

"The place of supply of digital services
If you are a business making supplies of digital services to UK consumers, those supplies are liable to UK VAT. If you make supplies of digital services to consumers outside the UK these are not liable to UK VAT. They may be liable to VAT in the country where the consumer is based. If you supply digital services to consumers via a third party platform or marketplace, the digital platform is responsible for accounting for VAT on the supply instead of you.

If your supplies are liable to UK VAT you will need to register for UK VAT if you are based outside the UK."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-vat-rul ... -consumers

Supplying a physical copy of the software alongside the digital version just looks to add complexity.

It's not clear from that page whether there is the sort of turnover threshold exemption available to UK businesses - you only have to register for and charge VAT if your turnover is big enough.

It's also not clear how the UK government will actually enforce this rule on businesses outside its jurisdiction, or whether a private citizen enabling a non-UK supplier to break the rules is committing any sort of offence.

But hey, we've got blue passports. And fish we can't sell.
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robinsmh

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Re: UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/

PostSat Apr 03, 2021 12:31 pm

I just tried to order from hauptwerkshop.de as a UK user, but their website seems unable to accept my details to create an account with them. It insists that I enter a company name (Firma) and vat number (UST Id) which of course as a private individual I dont have.

How did others manage to order off them? I too want to buy Nordbroek.

Thanks.
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dhm

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Re: UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/

PostSat Apr 03, 2021 1:21 pm

robinsmh wrote:How did others manage to order off them? I too want to buy Nordbroek.
Thanks.

I can help with that. I'm a UK-based, VAT-registered Hauptwerk dealer.
I trade with most of the EU-based sample-set producers, and my prices include UK VAT.
See here: http://en.midi-organs.eu/index.php/shop ... ample-sets
Douglas Henn-Macrae
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http://www.midi-organs.eu
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JulianMoney-Kyrle

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Re: UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/

PostSat Apr 03, 2021 1:51 pm

I have bought organs from Douglas, and the whole process was quite painless.

I think for Noordbroek, which is produced by Sonus Paradisi in the Czech republic, once you have paid him then he will email you a link to the SP download page (or possibly to his own - I can't quite remember).

I really love that particular sampleset, which is very nicely recorded and has just the right amount of reverberation (with the option of fine-tuning it as it is multichannel). The organ itself is very beautiful and versatile, and I keep going back to it despite having many others.
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dhm

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Re: UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/

PostSat Apr 03, 2021 1:57 pm

Thanks, Julian.
For clarification about the procedures:
With Forest Pipes, OAM and Voxus, you will be provided with download links and (where necessary) iLok activation codes.
Slightly different for Sonus Paradisi: You still have to have an account with SP, even though buying from me.
Download links and iLok codes are then deposited in your SP account.
Douglas Henn-Macrae
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http://www.midi-organs.eu
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robinsmh

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Re: UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/

PostSat Apr 03, 2021 2:42 pm

I managed to get the hauptwerkshop.de site work - I think it just didn't work correctly using an android tablet, but is fine using Chrome on my PC.

Using them, I only paid £162 for Nordbroek, whereas Douglas was going to charge £205. That really is quite a difference in price!

The only problem (if this is actually a problem) is that I have paid German VAT to the German tax office, and HMRC will not get a penny. No import duty can be imposed by them because its a digital download.

So I'm happy - and Jiri get's his sale.

But the big question is how on earth can hauptwerkshop.de offer such a good price? Its actually significantly cheaper than the Euro price on SP's on web site!
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dhm

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Re: UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/

PostSat Apr 03, 2021 4:06 pm

robinsmh wrote:I only paid £162 for Nordbroek, whereas Douglas was going to charge £205. That really is quite a difference in price!
The only problem (if this is actually a problem) is that I have paid German VAT to the German tax office,

I, too, don't understand how Orgelhaus can do it for that price. Did you pay £162 in total, or £162 + German VAT?
I'm very open about how my prices are calculated: producer's quoted retail price divided by exchange rate; add 3.5% for PayPal commission (since most customers pay that way); and 20% UK VAT.
Obviously I can't update website prices every couple of days. Current prices are based on £1.00=EUR1.10.
Douglas Henn-Macrae
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http://www.midi-organs.eu
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robinsmh

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Re: UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/

PostSat Apr 03, 2021 5:23 pm

I paid £162 in total, including 19% tax.
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JulianMoney-Kyrle

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Re: UK purchases of sample sets from EU suppliers from 1/1/

PostSat Apr 03, 2021 6:43 pm

I have just had a quick look at their web site and compared a few prices with the official price listed on the producers' web sites. By-and-large they are giving a price inclusive of VAT which matches the official price, though some providers (including Sonus Paradisi) only give an ex-VAT price and you have to calculated what it would be with tax added. There do seem to be some inconsistencies, however, and Noordbroek is listed at less than the official price, as is Groningen with all options included (the other versions seem to match SP, however). I don't know if this is deliberate, or perhaps they haven't always kept up when prices have changed, though this doesn't happen very often.

For Sonus Paradisi there is another way to get the samplesets a bit cheaper, and that is to buy sufficient from them to earn a permanent loyalty discount for subsequent purchases. However, their systems are unable to track purchases made through a reseller which do not count towards the discount and cannot themselves be discounted, either. Last time I tried, SP was not accepting sales requests from a UK address, though if you do have another address in the EU you can use that.

My understanding of the current situation with online purchases from a foreign supplier (EU or anybody else) going to the UK is that if the value of the goods is less than £135 then the VAT is collected by the vendor on behalf of the British Government, but if they are worth more than that then the purchaser is responsible for ensuring that VAT and import duties are paid. In practice the courier will demand any taxes and import duties from the recipient before releasing the package, though with software downloads that is harder to police.

There is a HUGE document listing every category of goods imagineable together with the amount of import duty payable. Once the duty has been calculated (which may be zero in some cases) then it, along with any shipping costs, is added to the purchase price and VAT is added to the total (i.e. you even pay VAT on the duty - I found this out when I bought my CMK manuals from MIDI Organ Works in Canada).

Of course HMRC aren't concerned whether or not you have paid German VAT and they will still want their own. However, since you aren't actually liable for German VAT (or maybe you are for digital downloads - who knows?) there is probably some arcane system in place for claiming it back.

Anyway, it seems as though you have obtained Noordbroek for a good price, and much more important now is installing and playing it. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have.
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