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Upgrading to better technology

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Romanos

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Re: Audio comparison between Version IV and V/VI

PostMon Nov 22, 2021 4:21 pm

I've found that the built-in convolution reverb and rank perspective routing improved my experience a lot for organs

I like drier / close samplesets just for clarity's sake, but I have to agree that the in-built convolution reverb is most excellent and has totally revolutionized my love for certain samplesets. You can now have the clarity of 'near' sets with the spaciousness of bigger spaces when you want that. You can turn it on and off in seconds. This one feature alone was worth the upgrade. Instruments that sounded flat or lifeless can really become a new wonderful delight.
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JulianMoney-Kyrle

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Re: Audio comparison between Version IV and V/VI

PostTue Nov 23, 2021 5:14 am

When I upgraded from 4 to 5, and then to 6, I wasn't thinking about audio improvements, and I was taken by surprise at how much better each version sounded compared with its predecessor.

For a long time I was bothered by a sort of fuzziness of the sound, particularly in combinations with a lot of upperwork and most especially the plenum of many organs. I thought this was probably intermodulation distortion and ended up adding more and more speaker channels to reduce the number of pipes sounding through each one, and although this improved the sound, it didn't really get rid of the problem, and it would still annoy me every time I played.

Then along came HW5 and the plenum was suddenly a lot clearer. With HW6, cleaner still. Since I also have some six-channel sets I have now rearranged my speaker set-up so that I have three pairs of speakers at the front for the direct channel, two at the side for the distant and one at the rear for surround, in addition to a sub-woofer. The sound is by a long way the best it has ever been and there is a sense of space which I never had before.

I am using Behringer B2031A speakers and a large SVS sub-woofer. I have a large music room (7 x 4 x 3 metres) with a stone floor, and to add authenticity it isn't heated in winter (also to save money...).
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Jan Loosman

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Re: Audio comparison between Version IV and V/VI

PostTue Nov 23, 2021 7:38 am

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:When I upgraded from 4 to 5, and then to 6, I wasn't thinking about audio improvements, and I was taken by surprise at how much better each version sounded compared with its predecessor.

Then along came HW5 and the plenum was suddenly a lot clearer. With HW6, cleaner still. Since I also have some six-channel sets I have now rearranged my speaker set-up so that I have three pairs of speakers at the front for the direct channel, two at the side for the distant and one at the rear for surround, in addition to a sub-woofer. The sound is by a long way the best it has ever been and there is a sense of space which I never had before..


I wholeheartedly agree.

DA converters are much better capable of reproducing a undistorted sound from 96khz sources then from 48 khz thats one part of the improvement but also adding extra side channels for the most distant front perspective gave a marked improvement adding vertical and transversal space and also improving the articulation of the individual stops a lot in my experience.


Regards Jan
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Antoni Scott

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Re: Audio comparison between Version IV and V/VI

PostThu Nov 25, 2021 3:56 pm

I really appreciate all of the constructive responses and candid assessments of the individual experiences using Version V then VI. It's difficult to put into words how to describe what may be lacking in Version IV compared to Version V or VI. It seems that you have done a better job describing what the differences are between IV to V and VI than me.
Although Version IV is a great software, there were some issues that I attributed to audio when in fact it may have been something else similar to what Kryle described. I guess my complaint was also with the plenum not sounding clean enough when individual stops on their own sounded perfect.

My real issue is finding a technician to guide me through a conversion from IV to VI. Even my local Apple tech said that Hauptwerk was too involved and declined to do the conversion for me. So I must content myself with Version IV until such time that I could find a technician willing to do the conversion for me.

Antoni Scott

Kryle wrote:
For a long time I was bothered by a sort of fuzziness of the sound, particularly in combinations with a lot of upperwork and most especially the plenum of many organs. I thought this was probably intermodulation distortion and ended up adding more and more speaker channels to reduce the number of pipes sounding through each one, and although this improved the sound, it didn't really get rid of the problem, and it would still annoy me every time I played.

Then along came HW5 and the plenum was suddenly a lot clearer. With HW6, cleaner still. Since I also have some six-channel sets I have now rearranged my speaker set-up so that I have three pairs of speakers at the front for the direct channel, two at the side for the distant and one at the rear for surround, in addition to a sub-woofer. The sound is by a long way the best it has ever been and there is a sense of space which I never had before.
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mnailor

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Re: Audio comparison between Version IV and V/VI

PostThu Nov 25, 2021 4:51 pm

I don't think the upgrade from HW 4 to 5 or 6 is that hard or requires a technician. There were some misunderstandings and confused users when HW 5 first came out, but the 6.0.2 user guide's licensing and upgrade sections, the prerequisites document, and the release notes seem to cover what a non-computer person would need to know, including what steps to take in the upgrade.

I'd suggest reading those documents, writing down a plan in order, then posting your plan for us to check it for potential problems before you do anything.

P.S. Uncheck the option to reset or clear your audio settings during upgrade. Turned off, the upgrade does a good job of translating your audio groups and channels to the new mixer settings without having to learn them right away, saving the biggest learning curve for later. (I assume that option from HW 4 to 5 upgrade is still defaulted on in HW 4 to 6.)
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mdyde

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Re: Audio comparison between Version IV and V/VI

PostFri Nov 26, 2021 4:37 am

mnailor wrote:P.S. Uncheck the option to reset or clear your audio settings during upgrade. Turned off, the upgrade does a good job of translating your audio groups and channels to the new mixer settings without having to learn them right away, saving the biggest learning curve for later. (I assume that option from HW 4 to 5 upgrade is still defaulted on in HW 4 to 6.)


We changed those 'reset' to default wizard options to default to 'off' in v5.0.1+:

To help avoid confusion, when the General Configuration Wizard runs automatically upon first launch after upgrading from a pre-v5 version, the (recommended) options to discard/reset migrated Hauptwerk v4 audio settings/routing are no longer ticked by default if you previously had more than one audio output group configured in your previous Hauptwerk version. Likewise for the option to reset (migrated) rank routing when the Organ Configuration Wizard runs automatically when first loading each organ after upgrading from a pre-v5 version.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mnailor

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Re: Audio comparison between Version IV and V/VI

PostFri Nov 26, 2021 8:11 am

Thank you!
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mdyde

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Re: Audio comparison between Version IV and V/VI

PostFri Nov 26, 2021 8:19 am

As always, thank you too!
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Antoni Scott

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Re: Audio comparison between Version IV and V/VI

PostFri Nov 26, 2021 9:28 am

My best option is to purchase a new Advanced Perpetual Version VI.
I can still use my 2007 MacPro for my Version IV should the conversion not work out.
I would upgrade my 2010 MacPro 12-core to the latest OSX Version it will handle, which I have
been told will work with Version VI. From my investigating about compatability I would have to replace my PreSonus sound card with a newer version. I would have to use the ILock dongle replacement.
Hopefully I can use my sample sets and migrate them to the newer system.
Is there anything that I have missed ?
Antoni Scott
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mdyde

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Re: Upgrading to better technology

PostFri Nov 26, 2021 9:51 am

Hello Antoni,

Thanks for the continued interest in upgrading.

[I've merged your most recent two topics on upgrading your systems into this previous topic of yours here, so that the background information is all in one place.]

My personal advice would still be to:

- Buy a v6 upgrade licence.
- Install v6 on your clean macOS installation on your 12-core Mac Pro (along with a compatible audio/MIDI interface, its driver, iLok License Manager, and an iLok dongle, and the driver for the Hauptwerk v4 USB key).
- Use iLok License Manager to activate your v6 licence to the dongle.
- Launch Hauptwerk, select your audio and MIDI devices, then migrate your sample set licences to v6.
- Download and install the v5+ compatible versions of your sample sets.
- Configure things how you want them in Hauptwerk.
- Finally, make a backup, and keep it somewhere safe (e.g. on a USB memory stick).

You wouldn't then be able to use Hauptwerk v4 any more, and you wouldn't be able to use your 2007 Mac Pro for Hauptwerk any more, but a 2007 computer is well beyond its expected life expectancy anyway, so there's little point in keeping it (and almost certainly not if doing so involved spending extra money on licences). If your 12-core Mac Pro does ever go wrong, at that point in time you could buy another identical reconditioned 12-core Mac Pro and swap your hard-drive/SSD into it, or simply re-install things on it, or buy a newer computer and re-install things on it. Worry about it when it happens, since all computer technology becomes obsolete quite quickly.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mdyde

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Re: Upgrading to better technology

PostTue Jan 18, 2022 10:15 am

Hello Antoni,

I'm replying to your question from another thread here, so that the relevant background can be found easily if needed:

Antoni Scott wrote:I am working on finding a Mac technician to perform an upgrade to Version VI.
So far, unsuccessful.

I do have a question: Can all my Version IV sample sets all be played on Version VI without doing any migrating/conversions/ etc to these sample sets ?

Antoni


Thanks again for the continued interest in upgrading.

Hauptwerk v5+ can load unencrypted v4 sample sets directly. For encrypted sample sets, you need to download and install the v5+ compatible versions from their makers. All major sample set producers offer free downloads for those to their licensed users.

Also, for sample sets licensed that were licensed via the Hauptwerk v4 USB Key, you need to migrate their licences to the v5+ iLok system (after which you won't be able to continue using them in v4).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Antoni Scott

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Re: Upgrading to better technology

PostTue Jan 18, 2022 12:18 pm

I think I found someone willing to tackle the upgrading to V or VI. Apparently he has 21 years of experience with Apple/Macs. He suggested that I retain my original dongle to maintain a backup should the present computer stop working and just go ahead and purchase a new licence for my present computer. I forwarded him the email instruction/suggestions you sent me. Hopefully this will be successful.

Thankyou for the info about encrypted and unencrypted sampel sets. The only sample sets I have that are encrypted are the Milan Metz, the Organ Arts Bosch-Schnitger and the Inspired Acoustics Esztergom. I stayed away from encrypted sample sets for as long as I could because I could never gets them to work without a lot of back and forth. Darryl Wood from Midi Classic in Canada was helpful in getting them to work.

Antoni
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mdyde

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Re: Upgrading to better technology

PostTue Jan 18, 2022 12:37 pm

Thanks, Antoni.

Glad to hear you've found somebody to help you with it.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mnailor

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Re: Upgrading to better technology

PostTue Jan 18, 2022 12:42 pm

One note about the idea of starting with a new full HW 6 license and keeping HW 4 running on your old machine:

To do that, you won't be able to do a license migration of Metz, etc, from HW 4 to HW 6 because the migration process disables the HW 4 dongle, if I understand it correctly.

It would be less expensive to buy a HW 4 to 6 upgrade and migrate the sampleset licenses. You wouldn't have HW 4 as a backup, but you wouldn't have to pay for new sampleset licenses that you already own.

(If your old machine can be repaired and updated enough (MacOS version) to support HW 6, you could use that as a backup. That's what I do. The iLok license can be moved easily between machines.)

I'd imagine HW 7 may be coming within a year, based on the recent previous major release timelines. Buying an upgrade to HW 6 would save some money for an eventual HW 7 upgrade. The upgrade from HW 4 is the relatively complicated one because of the HASP to iLok change. After that, it's easy.
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mdyde

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Re: Upgrading to better technology

PostTue Jan 25, 2022 12:17 pm

Hello Antoni,

I'm replying to your question from another thread here, so that the relevant background can be found easily if needed:

Antoni Scott wrote:Martin Dyde:
So far I have not been successful in finding anybody willing to do an upgrade for me. It's not very encouraging.

I do have one question: I'm not sure if I asked before , or was informed before, but will all my unencrypted sample sets be transferable to Version VI without using the "migration" procedure ? Can I just install the unencrypted sample sets into Version VI as if it was a Version IV ?

Antoni


Sorry to hear you haven't managed to find anybody to do the upgrade for you yet.

v5+ can use unencrypted v4 sample sets directly. They weren't licensed via the v4 Hauptwerk USB Key, so they have no licences to transfer from it.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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