It is currently Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:52 am


How many samples… is too many?

A discussion forum for anything even marginally Hauptwerk-related.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

B777Captain

Member

  • Posts: 846
  • Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:16 pm
  • Location: Las Vegas, Nevada USA

How many samples… is too many?

PostMon Aug 02, 2021 5:40 pm

Was changing organs last night and did it the old fashion way of using the organ list from the menu vs the quick access way.

I realized after a bit…. I sure have a LOT of samples!! I didn’t count but it must be somewhere above 20. Now granted, some of them are to the composite organs, but most are not.

I then got thinking…. When will I ever be satisfied…. Or find that Perfect Organ for me?? And I honestly don’t have an answer.

I love the Cavaille Col sound the most with big acoustics…. And have discussed with Francois Ratte about getting the NANCY sample and that would be my last!!!!

When will I… When do YOU… become content with your samples…. Or do you Ever????

Pat
Pilot Southwest Airlines
Las Vegas, Nevada
Offline
User avatar

kwbmusic

Member

  • Posts: 569
  • Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:06 am
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostMon Aug 02, 2021 6:26 pm

Probably an evolutionary thing. When I started in Hauptwerk more than 10 years ago I was so excited by the availability of all these wonderful organs that I bought up a large number plus every freeby I could find. As time went by the realisation dawned that I was not, and could not, use every one often. Though I still have everything I obtained, the reality is that I now only utilise three or four. Practicality and time available created the reality. Quite happy now with Paramount 341. I have Paramount 450 but it is just too complex for me On the classical side Metz and Hinsz are the ones. Given I started as an organ learner, but was a pianist, decades ago, I am so pleased with the abilirty to play organ as a diversion within the Covid lockdowns that we have had from time to time.

If there is an answer applicable to everybody I suggest that 4 or 5 would be reasonable. However the next reality is to derive the short list. You need to have experience with the others. Conclusion, difficult to answer the posed question!
Keith
Offline
User avatar

engrssc

Member

  • Posts: 7283
  • Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:12 pm
  • Location: Roscoe, IL, USA

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostMon Aug 02, 2021 7:08 pm

Similar to friend who was "into" clothes.. With several closets filled and after moving to Arizona, he has concluded that less is more. :roll: . 109 degrees F (43 C) out there right now. I'm happy enough with 74F (23 C) right now here going down to 55F (13 C) overnight. 8)

Rgds,
Ed
Offline

sesquialtera

Member

  • Posts: 354
  • Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:25 pm
  • Location: france

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 6:42 am

I first wanted a lot of different organs, to make experiments about styles, acoustics etc, so I own a least about 30 organs, half of them are free. But now I uninstalled most of them and only use the 5 I like the most. Surfing from an organ to another can be a waste of time... (and money ! )
Offline

smfrank

Member

  • Posts: 301
  • Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:53 am
  • Location: NY, NY

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 6:57 am

I have over 100 sample sets. Some free, most paid.
I am interested in the evolution of quality over time and the diversity.
Also, I like to support sample set producers, so I have purchased sets that I rarely ever use.
The sheer number has gotten to be a problem, so I made a FileMaker database to track them.
It includes producer, set name, year built, genre, location, etc. and pictures of console and ancillary screens.
Yes, I mostly use a small handful, but occasionally like to experiment.
I spell nerd with all caps :)
Steve
Steven Frank
Offline
User avatar

gecko

Member

  • Posts: 266
  • Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:35 am
  • Location: New York

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 7:58 am

The more I have, the better I can play. That's my theory which, to be fair, hasn't worked out in practice, but the only solution is to keep trying.
I still have a very small website
http://dustyfeet.com
Offline

larason2

Member

  • Posts: 404
  • Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 pm

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 8:38 am

I have bought many sample sets, most of them smaller and lower cost, and I have also programmed a fair number using the CODM. Still, I also only use 4-5 at most. The ones I use the most are Tihany, St. Eucaire, St Georgenkirche, and the St. Afra Hill. Some of them are older, but they still delight me! I also use St. Anne’s pretty often. When I first got Hauptwerk I fell in love with St. Anne’s and spent a lot of time with it, and it still feels very familiar and inspiring. I also use Zamardi and the Aeris Castilian for the right repertoire. If I had a bit more money I might buy more expensive sample sets, but these work amazingly well for a very wide range of repertoire.
Offline

seh52

Member

  • Posts: 253
  • Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:16 am
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA 90019

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 9:53 am

I have maxed out my hard drives with more than 150 sample sets. So, my system now has "too many."

It has been great fun completing tonal finishing for each newly installed sample set during the past decade!

University organ professors visit to explore and perform, and send their students to learn about virtual organs.

The AGO has produced a Pipe Organ Encounters day introducing youth to Hauptwerk.

I especially enjoy when concert organists and students explore, perform and record on virtual organs at my music parlor concerts: https://www.facebook.com/StansMusicParlor90019.

You may see and hear many video recordings here: https://www.facebook.com/StansMusicParlor90019/videos/?ref=page_internal

When you are in Los Angeles, you are invited to visit. Plan ahead, and we may be able to do a recording, live stream, or even a live concert with audience, too!

This is my current list:

Harris Residence Organ Hauptwerk Virtual Instruments

Virtual pipe organs:
1501 Unknown “Oldest organ in France”: Notre Dame Church, Lorris, France
1587 Unknown Builder: Holy Trinity Church, Smecno, Czech Republic
Early 17th Century Anonymous Belgian Builder (Restored in 1985 by Boisseau and Cattiaux): from Scholasticate
of the Oblates of Mary Immaculate, Liège, Belgium; moved to Benedictine Abbey, Solignac, France
Late 17th Century Anonymous Spanish Builder (Restored in 1977 by Pierre Chéron): from the Monastery of
Mondoñedo, Galicia; moved to Francis Chapelet’s Garden Auditorium, Montpon-Ménestérol, France
1699 A. Starck z Lokte: Zlata Koruna Monastery Church, Czech Republic
1700's Petar Nakic Adriatic Organ Model: St. Maria d'Alieto Church, Izola, Italy
1702 Caimari: St. Augustine's Church, Palma, Mallorca, Spain
1714 Jean Boizard: St. Michel en Thierache, France
1719 Johannes Radeker and Rudolph Garrels: Magnuskerk, Anloo (v.2), Netherlands
1730 Tobias Trost: Evangelische Lutherische Stadtkirche, Waltershausen, Germany (Organ Arts)
1735 Gottfried Silbermann: St. Peter's Church, Freiberg, Germany
1737 Michael Engler: Mary's Church, Krzeszow, Poland
1741 Chr. Muller: Maria-church, Oosterwijtwerden, Holland
1741 Gottfried Silbermann: Grosshartmannsdorf, Germany (Pipeworks)
1743 Johann Cyriacus Werner: St. Nikolaus Church, Strassburg, Austria
1745 Johann Andreas Silbermann: Protestant Church, Wasselonne, France (Eglise)
1750 Johannes Baumgartner: Roman Catholic Church of St. Imre, Gelence, Transylvania
1762 Jordi Bosch: Santanyi, Mallorca, Spain
1762 Dethleff Onderhorst: Cabinet Organ, Old Church of Bennekom, Netherlands
1775 fr. Isnard: Basilique Sainte-Marie-Madeleine, St. Maximin (Saint-Max, St. Max-AGO), Provence, France
1775 Santucci: Parish Church of Marija Bambina, Naxxar, Sicily
1778 Jan Pazický: R.C. St. Imre of Pusztaszabolcs, Hungary (Inspired Acoustics)
1787 Joseph Silberbauer: Kdousov Church, Czech Republic
1809 J. Hart: St. Lawrence Anglican Church, Little Waldingfield, Suffolk, England
1827 Felize Platania: Balzan Parish Church, Malta (HW1)
1831 Batz/1571 Peter Janszoon de Swart: Domkerk, Utrecht, Netherlands
1843 Stiehr-Mockers: Romanswiller, France (Jeuxdorgue)
1850 Istvan Kolonics: Transylvania village organ, Hungary (Hungarian)
1850 Janos Sachs: Transdanubia village organ, Hungary (Hungarian)
1855 Cavaille-Coll /1717 Desfontaines: St. Omer's Cathedral, Pas-de-Calais, France (Mini)
1865 P. van Oeckelen: Reformed Church, Pekela, Netherlands
1869 E. Schulze: St. Bartholomew’s Church, Armley, Leeds, England (Mini)
1874 Charles Jackson: St. Stephen's Anglican Church, Penrith, Australia
1876 Wilhem Sauer: Sanctuary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Skrzatusz, Poland
1885 Cavaille-Coll: St. Etienne Abbey, Caen, France
1888 Carl Volkmann: St. Clement Parish, Ledziny, Poland
1888 Father Willis: St. Bartholemew Anglican Church, Groton, Suffolk, England
1893 Father Willis: Hereford Cathedral, Herefordshire, England (Mini)
1898 Adolf Volkmann: St. Augustine’s Church, Lipiny, Poland
19th Century Father Willis: Studio Series 70 and 80, England (Silver Octopus)
1901 Alexander Orszagh: Catholic Church, Monor, Hungary
1901 James J. Binns: Old Independent Church, Haverhill, Suffolk, England (Mini)
1902 Cavaille-Coll (Charles Mutin): Saint Eucaire Church, Metz, France
1903 Gebruder Rieger: Sieraków Śląski, Poland*
1907 Brindley and Foster: St. Anne's Anglican Church, Moseley, England
1908 Marzoli & Rossi: Church of Malpaga, Italy
1908 Paul B. Voelkner: Church of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Szczecinek, Poland
1913 E.F. Walcker: Great Church, Vildervank, Netherlands (+Ext)
1916 E.F. Walcker: Martinikerk, Doesburg, Netherlands
1923 Unknown Builder: Prudhoe Methodist Church, Northumberland, England
1926 Wangerin: Masonic Auditorium and MM Lodge 2, Madison, Wisconsin*
1928 E.M. Skinner: Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, Chicago, IL* (Masterworks)
1929 Hill, Norman and Beard: St. Augustine's Church, Neutral Bay, Australia
1930 Joseph Angster: Parish Church of St. Louis, Budapest, Hungary
1930 Victor Gonzalez: Saint-Jean-de-Luz, Église Saint-Jean-Baptiste, France
1931 E.M. Skinner: First Congregational Church, Los Angeles, CA* (FCCLA)
1949 M.P. Moller: First Baptist Church, Nevada, Missouri
1950 Angster: Conventual Minorite Parish Church, Miskolc, Hungary
1951 Aeolian-Skinner: Redeemer Church, New Haven, CT
1961 Aachen Stahlhuth Organ Factory: Positive, Prohászka Church, Székesfehérvár, Hungary
1965 Vermeulen: Sts. Simon and Jude Thaddeus Apostles Church, Raszczyce. Poland
1966 Aeolian Skinner/1910 Murray Harris: Covenant Presbyterian Church, Long Beach, CA (CPCLB)
1966 Casavant Freres: St. George's Anglican Church, Oshawa, Ontario, Canada*
1966 Schantz: First Baptist Church of Riverside, CA*
1967 Hammarbergs Orgelbyggeri AB: Burea Church, Sweden*
1969 Schlicker: First Congregaional Church, Los Angeles, CA. (FCCLA)
1973 Marcussen & Son: Laurenskerk, Rotterdam, Netherlands
1974 Armagni & Mingot: Church of Luins, Switzerland
1978/1949/1945 Jorgensen Tribute Organ: Alesund, Hommelvik, & Alfjord Churches, Norway
1979 Alfred Führer: Monastery Church of Riddagshausen, Germany (Pipeloops)
1982 Gerhard Grenzing: Church of Saint Peter in Chains, Menesterol, France
1983 Schoenstein/1957 Aeolian-Skinner: First Covenant Church, Oakland, California
1987 Gyula Vagi: Holy Spirit Catholic Parish Church, Budapest, Hungary
1988 Casavant Freres: Concordia University Center, Irvine, CA (CUISchlicker/Both)
1989 Grönlunds Orgelbyggeri AB: Pitea School of Music, Sweden*
1989 Kaat and Tijhuis: Church of Veendam, Netherlands
1989 Tzschöckel Orgelbau trunk organ: St. Maria Church, Nordheim, Germany* (Prospectum)
1990 Fa. Kaul Orgelbau: Church of St. Johannes, Weinsberg, Germany*
1993 Walcker: Melcer Chamber Music Hall, Fryderyk Chopin University of Music, Warsaw, Poland*
1995 Casavant Frères: First Presbyterian Church of Bellevue, Washington
1996 Dupont/1954 Lambert/1859 Lefevre/1856 Le Marchand: St. Madeleine Church, Bagnoles de l'Orne,
France (Sancta)
1999 Aquincum/1915 Steinmeyer: Cathedral of Szombathely, Hungary (Savaria)
2000 Eisenbarth: St. Bartholomäus Church, Friesach, Austria
2000 William Zeiler/1992 Robert Muench/1969 Schlicker/1931 E.M. Skinner: The Great Organs of
First Congregational Church, Los Angeles, CA* (FCCLA)
2001 Robert Buhagiar/1899 Giuseppe Bergomi/1775 Santucci: Naxxar Parish Church, Malta
2001 Gerhard Grenzing: Temple des Eaux-Vives, Geneva, Switzerland
2001 Schantz/1929 Hill, Norman & Beard, Melbourne Town Hall, Australia (Mini)(Inspired)
2001 Vladimir Grygar: Church of the Holy Cross, Litomysl, Czech Republic
2002 Organ Manufacturing Co. of Pecs: Lutheran Church of the Buda Hills Area, Budapest, Hungary
2003 Dieter Ott: Gottingen, N. Germany
2004 Eppo Rynke Ottes: Church of Mostoles, Spain
2004 Jacek Siedler: St. John Cantius, Cracow, Poland
2005 & 1981 Harrison & Harrison/1930 Hill, Norman and Beard/1894 & 1883 Hill &Son/
1868 & 1830 Hill/1809 Allen/1735 Killeburgh: Peterborough Cathedral, England (Mini)
2006 Mathis Orgelbau: Church of St. Peter and Paul, Gorlitz, Germany (Mini)
2007 Daniel Prib: Chamber Organ, Prague, Czech Republic*
2007/1951 Eisenbarth/1949 Steinmeyer: St. Peter & Paul Church, Waldkirchen, Germany (Mini)*
2007 Tomaš Močnik: Church of our Lady in Adergas, Velesovo, Slovenia
2007 Zion Organ: Composite Brut-Leuchten Orgel*
2008 Mascioni: Parish Church, Giubiasco, Switzerland
2008 Stanisław Pielczyk: “Green Positiv” rental instrument, Poland
2010 Kenneth Tickell: Church of St. Mary-le-Bow, London, England (Mini)
2011 István Baróti1/1924 Joseph Angter/1856 Ludwig Mooser: Basilica of Esztergom, Hungary (Inspired)
2011 Verschueren/1864 Rudolf & Richard Ibach: St. Gertrudis, Bergen op Zoom, Netherlands
2012 Etcetera Pipe Organs: Major I – American Classic Organ (1930-1970) *
2012 Kaminski: Dluga Koscielna, Poland
2012 Mauch and Trefz/1971/1874 Weigle: Stadtkirche, Nagold, Germany (Any 7 Mini + Interrupted Demo)
2013/2003/1927 Casavant: Redlands University Memorial Chapel, California (Mini)
2013-20 Les Deutsch's Organ Software Development:
Cracov Extension
Litomysl 3M
Pitea
Expanded Schantz
Jeux d'Orgues d'Trois Claviers
Ext-Friesach
2014 Augustine's Virtual Organs:
Dutch Harmonium, Reformed Church, Kézdimártonfalva, Transylvania*
Large Dutch Composite Organ, Netherlands
Large Swedish Composite Organ, Sweden
Meitke/Muller Claviorgan*
Sonus Paradisi Velesovo-Menesterol 3-Manual Composite Organ
S P Great Baroque Composite Organ, Europe
S P Great Romantic Composite Organ, Europe
S P Modern Composite Organ, Europe
2014 Al Morse:
Enigma III 2-Manual Composite Organ*
Extended 3-Manual AGO Caen
Extended 3-Manual Friesach v2
Extended 3-Manual Krzeszow
Extended 3-Manual Menesterol
Extended 3-Manual Velesovo
Extended 3-Manual Rotterdam
Extended 3-Manual AGO St. Maximim
2014 Anton Heger: Zurek Sonus Paradisi Baroque Composite Organ
2014/1948/1898 Fleiter: St. Ludger Cathedral, Billerbeck, Germany
2014 OrganWorks Basilica: Ottobeuren Composite 5-manual Organ
2015 Anton Heger: Romer “Marcussen meets St. Omer’s Cavaille Coll” SP Composite Organ (48/3+P)
2015 Custom Hauptwerk Organs: Caen 4-Manual Extension
2015/2009 South African Church Organ Project: Composite 4-Manual English Free Cathedral
2016 Mascioni: Convent Parish Church, Azzio, Italy
2019 Dennis Featherstone: 1862 St. Sulpice Model SP French Romantic Composite, Paris, France (101/4+P)
2019 Josq: Composite “Cavaille-Coll” of Sonus Paradisi Caen, Rotterdam and St. Omer demos (58/3+P)
2019 Jabons Bacheks:
1868 A. Cavaille-Coll Notre Dame Cathedral Organ Tribute, Paris
V2.1 (Sonus Paradisi Composite: Caen plus Santanyi and St. Omer demo) (88/4+P)
V3 (Sonus Paradisi Composite: Caen plus Rotterdam and St. Omer demos) (88/4+P)
1905 C. Mutin/Cavaille-Coll Sacre Coeur Basilica Organ Tribute (Organo), Paris
V2 (Sonus Paradisi Composite: Caen plus Rotterdam & St. Omer demos) (78/4+P)
1935 A. Convers/Cavaille-Coll Basilica of St. Thérèse of Lisieux Tribute Organ (Organo) (70/3+P)
V1 (Sonus Paradisi Composite: Caen and Santanyi plus Utrecht and Brasov demos)
Composite Organ of the Three Kings (Organo) Hohe Domkirche Sankt Petrus, Cologne, Germany (90/4+P)*
(Caen, Doesburg Demo, Brasov Demo, Bells from Komarom)
Theater organs:

1920’s Paramount Organ Works: Wurlitzer Theater Organ (3/20) *
1928 Barton (3/12): Redford Theater, Detroit, MI
1928 Robert Morton Opus 2401 (3/17): from Empress Theater, Columbus, OH, now at Billmire Residence
2013 South African Church Organ Project: Freedom Morton (3/17) *

Other virtual instruments:

1380 Jan van Haelst: Belfry, Ghent, Belgium
1700 J.J. Donat: Klavichord (2006 replica), Leipzig, Germany
1710 Michael Mietke: Cembalo Harpsichord (2005 replica), Berlin, Germany
1855 Joshua C. Stoddard: Calliope (steam organ), Worchester, Massachusetts (Pipeloops)
1864 Bells of St. Andrews Church: Komarom, Slovakia
1895 Debain harmonium and composite extension: St Denis Chapel, Réunion Island
1981 Martin Bezemer: Harpsichord, Eindhoven, Netherlands (Sygsoft)
2008 František Vyhnálek: (Cembalo) 1624 Johannes Ruckers Harpsichord, Czech Republic (Mini)

Demos:
1721 Arp Schnitger & sons: Grote of St. Michaelskerk, Zwolle, Netherlands
1839 Carl August Buchholz: Black Lutheran Church, Brasov, Romania
1929 E.M. Skinner: St. Mark’s Episcopal Church, Glendale, CA (SME)
1948 Aeolian Skinner: Christ Cathedral Arboretum, Garden Grove, CA (CCARB)
1987 Manuel Rosales: Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, Portland, Oregon
2007 Bartolomeo Formentelli: (Dom Bédos) St. Domenico Church, Rieti, Italy

*Dry
Offline
User avatar

tf11972

Member

  • Posts: 286
  • Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:33 pm
  • Location: Bavaria, Germany

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostSun Aug 08, 2021 2:39 pm

I have only ten organs installed on my computer and most of the time I use three or four of them.

But I will increase my collection in the future (that‘s another story :lol: )
Best regards
Thomas

Forestpipes - Virtual Pipe Organs
http://www.forestpipes.de
Offline

1961TC4ME

Member

  • Posts: 3076
  • Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:45 pm
  • Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostMon Aug 09, 2021 10:32 am

I've kept things pretty minimal instead of going out and getting every set that sounds interesting. The main reason being, yes there's a bunch of them I'd like to get, however I too am concerned with having too many sets it's likely that many won't get used. The other question I always ask myself is how many sets will I end up with that fall into the same category?

Much of my decisions on which sample sets I have has instead been based largely on how they sound for their given category be it a more modern sounding instrument, French baroque, what kind of music I'm interested in playing etc., etc. Sound to me is crucial, I'm very picky and I prefer to only purchase wet or surround sets that are in their own acoustic vs. adding HW reverb. Space on my hard drive (and money!) are big factors as well. To date I've purchased and use often the Armley Schulze, St. Max, St. Eucaire, and the Paramount 320 when I really want to go in another direction. :lol: I do use a slight amount of reverb on the Paramount 320 but this is the exception. Overall these pretty much cover the bases for me and what I'm interested in. I also own the SP Dingelstaedt, but I ended up not being too crazy about this one, the acoustics are just too mushy and it lacks in clarity to my ears, so to me that one was money wasted and I don't want to end up with too many like that.

Marc
Offline

mnailor

Member

  • Posts: 941
  • Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:57 pm
  • Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostMon Aug 09, 2021 10:57 am

I've bought 65 samplesets over the years, but only have 30 installed, and am slowly uninstalling more.

The main reason is that, as I've gradually figured out better ways to use HW master registration tools to make playing easier for me, the amount of setup work to support that consistently on every organ has grown. The more organs, the more time spent maintaining registrations if I don't want to freeze it at one flawed scheme and stop trying out possible improvements. Setting up stepper sequences is especially time-consuming, but very helpful as a playing aid.

I have 3 basic schemes, for French Classical organs, Baroque - Classical organs, and Symphonic - Romantic organs. If I don't make all the pistons do the same things for all organs of the same style, it gets frustrating to practice.

I really only play about 15 organs most of the time.
Offline

1961TC4ME

Member

  • Posts: 3076
  • Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:45 pm
  • Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostMon Aug 09, 2021 11:25 am

That brings up another good point... The more you have, do you end up fiddling around more than you do playing? Yes, when it's a new set I've just purchased I'm excited to get it installed and try it out for the first time, but I generally have little patience for installing and uninstalling sets and I try to keep the fiddling around with things down to a minimum. My main fiddling around has focused on routing which in itself can be very time consuming from one instrument to the next. So, the few sets I have, I get them set up the way I want and I then concentrate on playing. You could really spend all day tinkering if you wanted to, and maybe for some that's half the fun.

Marc
Offline

vpo-organist

Member

  • Posts: 136
  • Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:49 am

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostMon Aug 09, 2021 3:41 pm

Hello Marc,

1961TC4ME wrote:I'm very picky and I prefer to only purchase wet or surround sets that are in their own acoustic vs. adding HW reverb.

Readers might take that to mean that HW reverb is a bad thing. However, it's the reverse case. With the three standard releases Short-Mid-Long, you make a very big compromise sonically. Particularly with larger acoustics, I always find at http://www.contrebombarde.com that sonic artifacts (usually releases that are too short) detract from the listening pleasure. Even with brand new sample sets. The problem is that most manufacturers stick to the old method instead of delivering DRY recordings with the appropriate impulse response.

Sonus Paradisi is much further along in this regard. The Rotterdam and Caen are available as DRY versions. The sets sound gorgeous with SP's IR's. The IR's must be high quality for a good result. The Zwolle IR fits well with the Rotterdam. Too bad there is no original IR to go with it!
The Caen sounds fantastic and flawless with the original reverb. Hundreds of releases are available when using Convolution Reverb! With the previous technology only Three! It takes little imagination to understand the improvement.

Gernot Wurst from Prospectum has introduced the topic of Convolution Reverb in a three-part article series in a German OKEY music magazine, so that even a layman can understand why the three standard releases cannot be a permanent solution and especially not a good sonic documentation of an organ. The series is called "Raum für die Königin" (DE) / "Room for the Queen".

I am of the opinion that the three-release technique will eventually (hopefully quickly!) die out. If there is a matching impulse response (IR file) included with a sample set (or better several IR's), then you have captured the perfect "fingerprint" of the room (direct sound and corresponding sound reflections). Absolute sonic perfection will be achieved when HW supports IR's even better. This includes multiple support positions and interpolation of the positions in between, optimally infinitely adjustable (see Noorlander's upcoming SWEELINQ product). It should also be possible to assign one IR per pipe or optional defined pipe group. For this, manufacturers need to change their sampling accordingly.

By the way, this is also the only solution to reduce main memory consumption and to ensure short loading times. That was now a long comment to the statement "vs. adding HW reverb" ;-) On the part of the users and manufacturers a rethinking is necessary to eliminate the current disadvantages of the release technology.

To contribute to the topic:
I use about 10 sample sets. I sometimes use only one or two sets for a few days or weeks and then switch to another set(s). I enjoy this organ variety.

This is comparable to the fact that I don't always play the organ in the same church, but also want to have some variety.

The additional free sets are usually somewhat small and have only limited possibilities. Therefore I almost never use them. An exception is PG's Friesach, which offers many possibilities.

I have found in the past that I rarely if ever used some sets because the interface is so cruelly designed. Coupled with the unreadability of the registers, I stopped using the PAB, for example. French organs have also been unfamiliar and difficult to use for me.

My solution:
Some time ago I developed a midi panel that allows me to design each sample set to my liking. And always according to identical design guidelines, to ensure a quick habituation.
Especially the Notre Dame de Metz with its footpistons was difficult to use for me. With my layout I was able to regain the joy of the set - the set is now very easy to use! Also the PAB with a one page layout and best readability out of the corner of my eye. This is pure joy and satisfaction for me. I totally don't care about the manufacturer design of sets now. A simple design can be completed in a few minutes. In a text file the register names are entered - done! Column and row layout are generated automatically by a few entries in the text file. No manual layouting required. Simple and fast is the motto.

Best of all, the midi panel runs in the background. If another set is loaded in Hauptwerk, then Hauptwerk "tells" via midi signal which set was loaded and directly after the loading process of Hauptwerk the midi panel display the loaded Panel for the loaded organ, as if the panel was a part of Hauptwerk.

If there is enough interest, then I will publish the midi panel. At the moment the panel runs only on Windows. A platform independence is planned with .NET6.

I hope my statement is readable despite my deficient English. Deepl.com helps me with with the translation.

Best regards
Offline

larason2

Member

  • Posts: 404
  • Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 pm

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostMon Aug 09, 2021 10:04 pm

I still think that even a dry set with compatible IR is still not as good as a recorded perspective that has a good balance of pipe and room sound, but I guess there is some personal preference to this. My reasons are that it’s hard to get a pipe recording truly “dry” aside from recording each pipe in an anechoic chamber. On my St. Afra Hill, the dry perspective is pretty dry except for the tuba! For the sets I have an IR for, I’ve tried the dry perspective with the IR, but it still doesn’t sound quite right to me. I usually prefer just the middle perspective alone.
Offline

mnailor

Member

  • Posts: 941
  • Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:57 pm
  • Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: How many samples… is too many?

PostTue Aug 10, 2021 3:34 am

It's a nice idea, but shipping all samplesets as dry with their own rooms' IRs would require using one mixer preset per organ or changing HW allow the IR settings per mixer bus to vary by organ, a whole new layer of setup. Currently there are only 8 mixer presets, so a limit of 8 organs, unless you spread 32 organs disjointly across the Alt configs. That's not going easy to maintain.

I'm sure HW could be enhanced to load the perspective IRs by mic position shipped with a sampleset and make the IR settings part of the per organ settings, if the user could identify shared mixer buses by which perspective the bus matches, but it's already kind of tangled without that feature pile added. So more likely a lot more mixer presets so each organ can have its own.

And if my 8 core i9 can just barely handle a semi-dry 60 rank sampleset with per-channel IRs on 10 primary and 6 intermediate stereo buses, it's not efficient enough yet to expand to running "per stop" IR computations on a large organ. The 3 release model at that size runs on my CPU with plenty of headroom.

For now, the 3 release model is probably more practical.
Next

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests