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Issue with iLok dongle

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wurlitzerwilly

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Issue with iLok dongle

PostMon Dec 06, 2021 8:18 pm

I just discovered a bit of a nasty! I had just completed a HW6 setup for a customer and was deleting unwanted files, when I noticed that the timestamp on some files was wrong and in fact in the future. Obviously the computer clock had gained a little. No problem (you'd think) I just manually reset the clock to the correct date and time.
Fortunately I decided to re-start Hauptwerk and load the organ and suddenly got a message from iLok that the computer clock had been changed and licenses were no longer valid!!! The message required me to reset the clock accurately (it already was) then connect to the Internet and click 'OK' so that they could 'repair' the licenses. I did so and all was restored. You'd be forgiven for thinking "what's the big deal, you fixed it."
Sure it's fixed, but what happens if the clock gets out of sync again or the internal battery dies and the clock sets itself back to the default mobo date? This computer would never normally be connected to the Internet and is hidden behind the console and mostly run headless. What happens 5 minutes before the show's due to start and this happens when it's all switched on?
I will be complaining to Pace and pointing out the stupidity of such a practice.
In the meantime, beware!
Regards,

Alan.
(Paramount Organ Works)
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mdyde

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostTue Dec 07, 2021 5:07 am

Hello Alan,

Yes -- that's expected iLok system behaviour -- if the computer's clock gets set back significantly in time then the you would need to re-sync the iLok licences in iLok License Manager, which does require an Internet connection temporarily. Presumably PACE made it require that to prevent people nefariously trying to get past licence/trial time limits.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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münsterorganist

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostTue Dec 07, 2021 5:14 am

Dear Martin,
does it mean,that-if necessary-the battery should only be changed, when the PC is switched on, so that the iLok does not lose its data? Thanks for answer.
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mdyde

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostTue Dec 07, 2021 5:37 am

Hello münsterorganist,

If your PC's clock were ever to get set back significantly in time, then all that you would need to do is to fix the clock (e.g. change the motherboard's battery with the PC powered down, then boot the PC and correct the time), then re-sync. your iLok licences in iLok Licence Manager when prompted (which requires an Internet connection temporarily).

None of your licences will be 'lost'.

münsterorganist wrote:does it mean,that-if necessary-the battery should only be changed, when the PC is switched on


If you need to change the motherboard's battery, you should power the PC down first (otherwise you risk damage). You would only need to re-sync your iLok licences (which is harmless anyway, except that it requires an Internet connection temporarily) if the computer clock had actually changed back to a date in that past.

If you change your motherboard's battery periodically every few years as a precautionary measure before the old battery actually dies, and if you change it quickly after powering down then hopefully the clock settings won't get reset, so the issue wouldn't arise. Also, if when changing the battery the clock does get reset, you may be able to set the clock again within the motherboard's BIOS settings before booting Windows (thus avoiding any problems). It's good computing practice to change the battery periodically anyway, since if the battery were to die (reverting the clock to a past time) then the incorrect clock could risk problems in Windows or other applications, in cases where timestamps of files get compared.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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münsterorganist

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostTue Dec 07, 2021 6:28 am

Many thanks for your quickly answer.
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wurlitzerwilly

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostTue Dec 07, 2021 5:33 pm

Hi Martin.

I can confirm that no licenses were lost, but I hate to think what would have happened if this had happened to someone else who was far less computer savvy - all organists are not technicians although most of them play better than I can. :D

With regard to replacing the battery, I guess it depends on the level of competence of the person doing the replacing, but I would always replace the battery with the PC powered up, otherwise CMOS settings would also be lost and some (naughty) programs store security bytes in CMOS, which the user would not be aware of. I agree that damage can be done, but provided that only plastic tools are use and the battery doesn't get dropped in the works, it's pretty safe. :)
Regards,

Alan.
(Paramount Organ Works)
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bourdon

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostSat Dec 11, 2021 3:30 am

- Some further questions about this subject :
1) Is this problem also possible with permanent licenses ? ( I don't see the reason why it should ?...)
2) In case of a problem such as described , is it the computer bearing hHuptwerk and the sample sets that has to be "updated" or isn't it the ILOK -kee ? ( that you can put into another computer in order to link to internet , as many ( or at least some )of us don't use the internet link on the computer dedicated to the organ ?
Thank you very much !
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mdyde

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostSat Dec 11, 2021 4:31 am

Hello bourdon,

If the PC's clock gets set significantly back in time (e.g. due to the motherboard battery failing) then yes -- my understanding is that you would actually need to connect the PC to the Internet temporarily (not merely your iLok dongle) to re-synchronise the licences, even if the only licences you currently use are perpetual ones.

(I imagine PACE probably made it work that way since the PACE system is also capable of supporting per-computer licensing [although Hauptwerk doesn't use those], and also since almost all people have had at least one trial or time-based licence active in their accounts for at least one product at some point in time [e.g. a previous trial for Hauptwerk or a sample set, or another non-Hauptwerk product], and a change of date could affect whether they should or shouldn't now be active.)

Hence if your PC can't easily be connected to the Internet, it's worth making sure you change its battery before it dies.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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wurlitzerwilly

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostSat Dec 11, 2021 12:00 pm

bourdon wrote:- Some further questions about this subject :
1) Is this problem also possible with permanent licenses ? ( I don't see the reason why it should ?...)
2) In case of a problem such as described , is it the computer bearing Hauptwerk and the sample sets that has to be "updated" or isn't it the ILOK -key ? ( that you can put into another computer in order to link to internet , as many ( or at least some )of us don't use the internet link on the computer dedicated to the organ ?
Thank you very much !

When this happened to my customer's PC, the request was to set the time accurately, then connect to the Internet. I forget now, but ISTR clicking on an OK button and it all took care of itself. This was using a single perpetual licence, NOT a subscription or time sensitive licence.

It does not affect Hauptwerk itself, only the iLok licenses.

It must put a time stamp within each licence on each computer, but as the particular key had only be used on a single computer, I have no way of knowing whether licenses on other computers would have been affected.

When I have nothing better to do, I might try setting the clock back on one of my PCs with HW6 installed and see what happens when I plug the dongle into another, where the clock hasn't been touched.

As Martin says, if you possibly can, change your battery before it runs out.
Regards,

Alan.
(Paramount Organ Works)
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bourdon

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostSat Dec 11, 2021 1:43 pm

OK; Thanks for the advice , in any case !
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IainStinson

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Re: Issue with iLok dongle

PostSat Dec 11, 2021 2:09 pm

I had a similar "problem" when the the UK switched from BST to GMT.

The HW computer is not usually connected to the network and I found that the time was incorrect (by plus one hour). (I would have expected Windows to deal with this but it didn't this time). I manually reset the clock (setting it back one hour).
When Is started HW ILOK issued a message and would not let things continue.
(It was only after setting the clock that the problem began.)

I took the iLok usb device out from the HW computer and plugged it into my desktop machine which is connected to the Internet, and opened iLok manager to check the iLok device. Everything appear to be fine.

I connected the HW computer to the network and adjusted the windows settings to set the time over the network. I reconnected the iLok device to the machine and HW started normally. I disconnected the HW computer from the network.

I suspect the key issue is the when the time was set back on the HW computer the iLok manager noticed this and determined it had been manually reset (from Windows) and decided it could not rely on the time being present by the computer. iLok determined that it would not allow the use of licensed products to continue. If the time had been "adjusted" over the network, then I think iLok would have trusted the change in local time. It may be that putting the device into another computer where the time had been maintained over the network had a part to play in this, but I suspect not.

It does seem strange that perpetual licenses are subject to this behaviour. It clearly is reasonable for time limited licenses but not for permanent licences.

Iain

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