Pipe detuning adjustment HauptwerkVII versus Sonus Paradisi

I have a question concerning the Pipe detuning feature. Some sample sets from Sonus Paradisi do have adjustment possibilites for "Pipe Coupling" and "Pipe Detuning".

HauptwerkVII offers also a "random pipe detuning adjustment" and e.g. "Air flow randomization (turbulence) adjustment" and other possibilities.

My question is, how do those simliar sample set and HauptwerkVII adjustments interact each other?
I asked Jiri and he wrote back, that the sample set settings act independently from the corresponding HauptwerkVII settings. Well, but what does that mean exactly? So, what happens if I set the SP setting to 0 (inactive) and HauptwerkVII setting to max? And what happens in the opposite way, SP setting to max and HauptwerkVII setting to min, and so on? Are both settings simply added? So in order to have a default setting, do I need to set each setting in SP and Hauptwerk to a quarter, so that both settings add to a half, means midway, means default?

And additional question: has the Sonus Paradisi Feature "Pipe Detuning" any corresponding setting on HauptwerkVII, or is that entirely different from any HauptwerkVII setting?

/BR Olaf

[mdyde]

Hello Olaf,

Whilst I don't know exactly what Jiri's organ definitions do internally, effectively any detuning that the organ definition does would simply add to any detuning that's applied as a result of your Hauptwerk settings (detuning via the voicing screen, random detuning settings, flow randomisation, etc.).

So in order to have a default setting, do I need to set each setting in SP and Hauptwerk to a quarter, so that both settings add to a half, means midway, means default?

I expect that Jiri designed his detuning models so that their defaults were appropriate for Hauptwerk's default settings, since the majority of people never change settings from their defaults. However, you'd have to ask Jiri if you wanted to confirm that.

And additional question: has the Sonus Paradisi Feature "Pipe Detuning" any corresponding setting on HauptwerkVII, or is that entirely different from any HauptwerkVII setting?

I assume you meant to type 'pipe coupling' (since Hauptwerk does have several means for detuning pipes, as you mentioned):

It's possible to implement things like 'pipe coupling' models within an organ definition (as Jiri has done), but Hauptwerk doesn't currently have a separate/additional 'pipe coupling' feature that applies to all sample sets, although that is logged as a long-standing enhancement request.

Deleted by author.

Many thanks to Martin and Andy for the interesting information!

@Martin: yes, I meant both features from SP, "Pipe Coupling" and "Pipe Detuning", how they interact with corresponding HW-settings, sorry for the confusion. I learned now that for "Pipe Coupling" there is no corresponding HW-setting, so there seems no question to be open then concerning interaction of different parallel "pipe coupling" settings.

@Andy: You said that SP disables the Hauptwerk setting for "Random pipe detuning adjustment", so that the SP-setting "Pipe Detuning" remains alone.
That is interesting, because it differs from that what Jiri (SP) answered in a mail to me. He wrote (concerning both mentioned settings):
"the features of the sample set are independent of Hauptwerk. So, they work independently from any similar feature of Hauptwerk."
That is however something else, because you wrote, that SP inactivates instead the corresponding HW-setting concerning Pipe Detuning!

So what is now the case - is the SP setting for "pipe detuning" really independant from the corresponding HW-setting or does SP instead inactivate the HW-setting for that?

Regards, Olaf

[mdyde]

Hello Olaf,

A sample set can't directly change any Hauptwerk preferences. However, the user preferences that control Hauptwerk's random detuning and flow randomisation models only turn the effects of those models up or down, whilst the parameters for the models themselves are defined within the sample set. Hence if the sample set producer has disabled those models entirely (as Andy says Sonus Paradisi do) by setting their depths to zero within the sample set's organ definition, then the models would remain disabled regardless of what values you specified for the corresponding user preferences (since 0 x 0 = 0). Hence both Jiri's and Andy's answers would be consistent and correct in that case.

Thanks, Martin!

So in essence that means that in the Sample Sets from Sonus Paradisi which have the "Pipe Detuning" feature, the corresponding Hauptwerk setting "Random pipe detuning adjustment" is completely deactivated. So no matter what I adjust in Hauptwerk for that setting, it has no effect. That is nothing what I exactly would call "independent" settings in that context however...

But well, at least now I know how the Pipe detuning adjustment in Hauptwerk and Sonus Paradisi interact and that I know now that I don't need to adjust something in Hauptwerk regarding that setting, since it is simply deactivated. That may be of interest also for other Sonus Paradis users.

So my initial question is answered.

To add to previous replies:
In all Pipeloops multi-channel sets I also implemented a separate "random" detuning feature (random in quotes since the random values per pipe are preassigned in the ODF, as there is no random function that can be used from inside the ODF), and I set the parameters corresponding to Hauptwerk's detuning function to zero, thereby disabling that feature for the sample set.
The reason I am doing this is that it is not yet possible in Hauptwerk to ensure that samples corresponding to the same pipe stay in tune relative with each other, when Hauptwerk's random detuning is used. It is entirely possible that the front and the rear sample of the same pipe are detuned in opposite directions, causing a beating of the pipe in itself. For this single reason I find this feature unusable for multi-channel sets (anything using more than one sample file per pipe).

[mdyde]

So in essence that means that in the Sample Sets from Sonus Paradisi which have the "Pipe Detuning" feature, the corresponding Hauptwerk setting "Random pipe detuning adjustment" is completely deactivated. So no matter what I adjust in Hauptwerk for that setting, it has no effect. That is nothing what I exactly would call "independent" settings in that context however...

But well, at least now I know how the Pipe detuning adjustment in Hauptwerk and Sonus Paradisi interact and that I know now that I don't need to adjust something in Hauptwerk regarding that setting, since it is simply deactivated.

Thanks, Olaf. Correct.

To add to previous replies:
The reason I am doing this is that it is not yet possible in Hauptwerk to ensure that samples corresponding to the same pipe stay in tune relative with each other, when Hauptwerk's random detuning is used. It is entirely possible that the front and the rear sample of the same pipe are detuned in opposite directions, causing a beating of the pipe in itself. For this single reason I find this feature unusable for multi-channel sets (anything using more than one sample file per pipe).

That is really interesting, thanks for that. Similar statement I got from Jiri concerning the motivation for an own SampleSet setting especially for multichannel sample sets.