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Pitching of mixtures

Using the CODM to create your own organ definitions, exchange CODM organ definitions, ...
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GeoffP

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Pitching of mixtures

PostWed Apr 14, 2021 3:16 pm

Hello

Having successfully loaded my custom organ, I feel the mixtures are not sounding correctly, it feels like they have been re-pitched higher than they should be.

When completing the rank details, how should you complete the PItch Rank Base Output field? I thought one of my mixtures was starting at 1 1/3 and the other at 1, so I entered 48 and 64 respectively, but I am not sure this is correct, I don't think there are any specific instructions for mixtures, and it is hard to be certain exactly what their pitch is. This could be a cause of the issue.

Regards, Geoff.
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mdyde

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Re: Pitching of mixtures

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 4:55 am

Hello Geoff,

If the sample set producer has populated the CustomOrganRank XML table in the sample set's relevant installation package definition file then you can read the recommended values to use for each rank from there, including pitch settings and sample folders. (E.g. for St. Anne's see: <HauptwerkSampleSetsAndComponents>\OrganInstallationPackages\000010\PackageID000010.InstallationPackageDefinition_Hauptwerk_xml .) Whilst Hauptwerk's sample set producer documentation recommends that producers populate that table for the benefit of CODM users, in practice I think few sample set producers actually do.

If you don't have that information for a given rank, and assuming that the sample set's sample files haven't be re-tuned perfectly to A-440/equal, then Hauptwerk will need to read the pitches that the producer saved in the the rank's raw sample files, in order that it can know how much pitch-shifting to apply to play them at the desired output pitches. To enable that you need to leave Rank.Samples_RankBasePitch64ftHarmNumIfAssumedTunedToConcertPitch blank/0 in your CODM ODF (to tell Hauptwerk to read the sample pitches from the sample files). You would then also need to match the basic rank output pitch(es) (Rank.Pitch_RankBaseOutputPitch64ftHarmonicNum) to the basic rank pitch(es) that the producer used when detecting and storing the pitches in the sample files.

I think (although I might be wrong) that many producers detect/store mixture ranks as though the whole rank was a 2'-pitched rank, so you could try setting:

Rank.Samples_RankBasePitch64ftHarmNumIfAssumedTunedToConcertPitch=<blank>/0
Rank.Pitch_RankBaseOutputPitch64ftHarmonicNum=1

... for the whole rank.

If that doesn't work, you could potentially either:

- Try different values for Rank.Pitch_RankBaseOutputPitch64ftHarmonicNum, e.g. try setting it for 4', or 1', or 2 2/3' (probably for the rank as a whole, but it might be the case that the producer has detected/stored different portions of the rank at different basic pitches in feet), or:
- Use an audio editor to see what pitches are stored in the sample files (assuming they aren't encrypted), so as to try to work out roughly what basic rank pitch(es) in feet they correspond to (for the rank as a whole, or portions of it, if the stored pitches indicate that's been used), or:
- Contact the sample set producer to ask him/her which basic rank pitch(es) in feet were used for detecting/storing the mixture rank's pitches.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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GeoffP

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Re: Pitching of mixtures

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 8:43 am

Many thanks Martin. I will try a few of these options.
Regards, Geoff.
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mdyde

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Re: Pitching of mixtures

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 8:48 am

Thanks, Geoff.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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larason2

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Re: Pitching of mixtures

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 9:40 am

I find there is little agreement among what the working pitch level for mixtures is, even on samples produced by the same sample set producer! Given that, I go to the original set, and hear what the mixtures sound like, and then I try different pitch levels until it sounds right. Sometimes they have to be set to 8', sometimes 4', 2 2/3', 2', 1 1/3' or even 1'. Often if you start at 8', you can get a sense of how much higher it needs to go. Hopefully this helps!
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ldeutsch

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Re: Pitching of mixtures

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 10:49 am

Geoff,

I have also found little conformity in how mixture "ranks" are pitched in sample sets. Martin has offered good advise here. I often use trial and error to find the correct pitch. It doesn't take very long - especially if, when testing, you only load the mixture and an 8' rank from the same division.

When I create my own sample sets, I prefer to compose mixtures from individual ranks. This avoids the problem and also allows the user to completely retune and revoice the mixtures. Some other developers, like Silver Octopus, also create mixtures in this way.

Les

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