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Viscount Cantorum Trio?

Building organ consoles for use with Hauptwerk, adding MIDI to existing consoles, obtaining parts, ...
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sschaub

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Viscount Cantorum Trio?

PostThu May 25, 2023 2:51 pm

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has used the Viscount Cantorum Trio as a Hauptwerk controller. Do the pistons all send MIDI signals that can be recognized by Hauptwerk? Can Hauptwerk control the Trio's stop tab light indicators? Does the physical volume control on the Trio send MIDI signals?

This product seems like a nice VPO option if it integrates well with Hauptwerk.

Stephen
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larason2

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Re: Viscount Cantorum Trio?

PostThu May 25, 2023 11:17 pm

I believe the answer is yes to all three, but I would wait until you get confirmation from someone with more experience. The stops will only light in response to Hauptwerk if you have Midi in from the computer's midi out as well as Midi out to the computer's midi in.
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magnaton

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Re: Viscount Cantorum Trio?

PostFri May 26, 2023 9:37 am

I agree, all modern organs built in the last 10 years will broadcast MIDI data on every physical device. I'm not sure about the back buttons that control the display panel, but you probably wouldn't want that anyway.

I read the brochure and this unit is designed with portability in mind. For a permanent home install I'd be leery of keyboard quality and the music rack is Casio inspired. Viscount touts their Physis Modeling technology however this unit and others are still sampled based, probably to keep the cost in line. Just an observation.

* * * shameless plug * * *
If you are interested in a well built, low profile, 3 manual HW ready console that does have new, professional organ keyboards and a lighted, usable music rack, check this one out.
https://www.drewworthen.com/opus-5

Danny B.
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dw154515

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Re: Viscount Cantorum Trio?

PostFri May 26, 2023 6:04 pm

Thanks, Danny.

I know a couple of people who have purchased the Viscount Duo/Trio models. One person has had his less than a year and is ready to sell and has asked me if I could do a custom build for him as a replacement. I do not know if this is just his personal preference or if he had any issues with the Viscount, or maybe he’s just “in the middle for something else.” I think the price point is amazing on those - as someone who builds VPOs on commission, I can only wish I could beat their price point on those for a “turn key” solution. But I can’t. I do better build quality, though, to be sure, but by the time you factor in a PC and audio, we are more expensive than the Viscount equivalents.

However, in addition to the organ Danny linked to above, this organ was commissioned by someone wanting the utmost portability.

https://www.drewworthen.com/Opus6

I’m not trying to sell you on it, but if you’re interested, feel free to message me through my website.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Design Engineer - American Sound and Electronics - Indy
https://americansound.cc/
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sschaub

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Re: Viscount Cantorum Trio?

PostTue Jun 13, 2023 9:54 am

Thanks for these replies!

I went ahead and purchased the Trio and have had some good initial success configuring it to work with Hauptwerk. Configuring Hauptwerk to recognize the Trio keyboards and stops was straightforward. Figuring out the best approach to integrating the Trio's combination system with Hauptwerk isn't obvious and is taking some time.

I initially had a little difficulty finding a U.S. supplier for the Viscount. One U.S. Viscount rep I communicated with indicated that the Trio was available in the U.S. only as a complete set with bench, stand and 30-note pedalboard for $8,500. I already have a bench, stand, and pedalboard, and wanted only the keyboard unit. I might have considered the entire set if it came with a 32-note pedalboard because I currently have a 30-note pedalboard that I want to replace and have really missed those extra 2 notes for the literature I play. I learned that Viscount recently added a 32-note pedalboard to their product line, which is great for the U.S. market because there aren't many sources of midi pedalboards in the U.S. But the 32-note pedalboard reportedly won't be available in the U.S. until this fall, and apparently won't fit in the stand that comes with the Trio. So I knew I didn't want the whole set.

I ended up purchasing from Kraft music:

https://www.kraftmusic.com/viscount-can ... organ.html

They special ordered it for me and it arrived within two weeks.

I am really pleased with the feel of the keyboards. They are a nice upgrade from the M-Audio units I've been using with Hauptwerk for 12 years. I am also happy about having real stops and pistons to use instead of a touch screen. I like that I can sit down and use the Trio without Hauptwerk when I want to do a quick practice session. I've never had a dedicated computer for my Hauptwerk setup (can't justify the expense) and it's nice not to fiddle with hooking up the laptop every time I want to sit down and play. Finally, I want my children to be able to play the organ when I'm not around to set up the laptop, and now they can. I will say that the music rack is not great and is a LONG distance from the bench. I'm going to investigate solutions others have suggested.

I am enthusiastic about this new setup and hope to find time to write up some additional notes when I work through further integration with Hauptwerk.

Stephen
Last edited by sschaub on Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mnailor

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Re: Viscount Cantorum Trio?

PostTue Jun 13, 2023 10:55 am

About the combination system, from page 261 of the HW 7 user guide:

"Stops, pistons and combination systems

Important: (assuming that your digital organ’s stop and pistons send MIDI in formats that Hauptwerk can understand) you may choose to use the digital organ with Hauptwerk in either of two modes:

1. Configure (auto-detect) Hauptwerk’s virtual stops/couplers/tremulants to respond to the digital organ’s
stops/couplers/tremulants, then use the digital organ’s built-in combination system instead of Hauptwerk’s, but don’t configure (auto-detect) any of Hauptwerk’s virtual combination pistons/buttons to respond directly to the digital organ’s combination pistons,
or:
2. Configure (auto-detect) Hauptwerk’s virtual combination pistons/buttons to respond directly to the digital organ’s combination pistons, then use Hauptwerk’s combination system instead of the digital organ’s built-in combination system, but don’t configure (auto-detect) any of Hauptwerk’s virtual stops /couplers/tremulants to respond to the digital organ’s stops/couplers/tremulants.

It’s very important that you never have both Hauptwerk’s virtual stops/couplers/tremulants and its virtual combination pistons/buttons configured to respond directly to the digital organ’s corresponding controls, otherwise Hauptwerk’s combination system will inevitably ‘fight with’ the digital organ’s combination system over the states of the stops/couplers /tremulants, usually leading to the virtual and physical stops/couplers/tremulants getting out of synchronization with each other, or ending up in unpredictable states. If you do accidentally find yourself in that situation then you should decide on which of the two modes of use listed above you prefer, then use ‘Organ settings | Organ configuration wizard’ to reset all MIDI/key trigger settings for the organ (so that the conflicting configuration is cleared), then auto-detect just the appropriate types of virtual controls.

In summary, you must choose which of the two combination systems (the digital organ’s or Hauptwerk’s) to use, but it isn’t reliably possible to use both connected in parallel."
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sschaub

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Re: Viscount Cantorum Trio?

PostWed Jun 14, 2023 5:39 am

Yes, I have seen that note in the user guide, and it makes sense. Thank you for the reply!

I am trying to configure option 2 from that quote in the manual, but the tricky part is that I also want Hauptwerk's virtual stops to respond to the Trio's stops. I think I've found a way to accomplish that, but more testing is needed to determine whether it works reliably.
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mnailor

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Re: Viscount Cantorum Trio?

PostWed Jun 14, 2023 11:02 am

That sounds like doing options 1 and 2 together. I'll be interested to hear what you find -- I never could make that work when I had a digital organ.

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