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Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

Buying or building computers for Hauptwerk, recommendations, troubleshooting computer hardware issues.
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mdyde

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostTue Sep 06, 2022 3:25 am

Thanks. You're very welcome.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostWed Sep 14, 2022 12:20 pm

Just writing in to say so far so good! Nary an error since I started using the renicing trick. For whatever reason it seems to work.
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostWed Sep 14, 2022 3:39 pm

I also probably shouldn't say it, and it may be totally subjective, but I think this trick has also made Hauptwerk quite a bit snappier! That is to say, the delay between when you click something and it happens feels shorter, and organs seem to take significantly less time to load. I wouldn't recommend it to everybody though, many of the websites that recommend this trick suggest going too far with it can damage your computer!
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Sep 15, 2022 1:02 pm

Alas, I must report I had audio errors again today. So back to the drawing board! I guess that trick doesn't really help after all.
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mdyde

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Sep 15, 2022 2:24 pm

That's a shame. Sorry to hear that.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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frpizin

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 1:52 am

I have the same problem (little "drop out", very intermittent). But not with a Motu, but with a Focusrite Scarlett 8i6, and idem with a Personus Studio 68C.
My system: Mac Studio M1 Max, Ram: 64 Go. Mac OS Monterey 12,6
Organ: La Chaise Dieu, stéréo
Probably a problem with CPU Apple M1 processor?
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 7:41 am

It could be. I had basically the same hardware and version of Hauptwerk on my i5 Intel Macbook Air, and never had any dropouts. As soon as I switched to the Mac studio the dropouts began. They also happened on my old Steinberg UR22, but in that case, they would crash the audio driver. It never had any driver crashes on the Air though. So at this point, I'm not sure what else to do! It happens intermittently enough that I can still use Hauptwerk. I feel like there may be a hardware trick for the Studio to eliminate them, but I'm not sure what to try next since the renicing didn't work.
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frpizin

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 12:29 pm

Me too: never problem with my old MacMini (2011) 16 Go ram!
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 2:38 pm

One more thing to try is to plug everything into a good quality powered thunderbolt hub (with it's own USB chip). When the T2 security chips first came out, some macs had the same problem, and it was solved with the hub (timing error between the T2 chip and a device's USB when the system tried to sync locations). As far as I know, Apple never really addressed the problem directly, as not all macs were affected, and it just kind of went away. I've read online of other T2 macs still having audio drop outs after Apple's supposed software updates to correct them, and I seem to recall that Apple made some changes to the Mac Studio T2 chips. So I've ordered a fancy thunderbolt hub, as I have uses for it otherwise if it doesn't help. If anyone else has any other ideas, I'm all for them!
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RaymondList

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 7:13 pm

Just an fYI - there is no T2 chip in an M1 (or M2) Mac. The security is handled by the Mx chip itself.

Edit: to include the official Apple info on how to determine if a Mac has a T2 chip:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862

Regards,
Ray
Ray
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 10:17 am

Ah, yes. You are correct. That must have been what I remember hearing about. Still, presumably the security portion of the M1 chip has similar architecture to the T2 chip, and audio still has to pass through it on the way to the audio interface. It's a bit of a gamble, but I'm not sure what else to try!
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RaymondList

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 1:18 pm

I don't have the Mac Studio but I have basically the same M1 processor in my MacBook Pro and I have (thankfully) no issues with the security functions of the M1. I hope that gives you some encouragement that you will find the issue.

Edit: By the way, I do have a very fancy Thunderbolt hub!

Regards,
Ray
Ray
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostSun Oct 09, 2022 9:20 pm

Well, the fancy hub is here and it didn't fix the problem. Too bad!

But I did stumble along this youtube video talking about how setting buffer size lower prevents thread switching from performance cores to efficiency cores in Ableton. This sounds a lot like the problem I'm having. Is there a Hauptwerk buffer size setting or other setting that will ensure only performance core threads are used, and no threads are switched to efficiency cores?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5eAJz3RVL44
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RaymondList

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 2:45 pm

I am not recommending this, but you might research changing the "Quality of Service" class to keep things on the performance cores. I've never done this, but a quick technical search turned up some interesting things. Here is something I just quickly copied:

"You can read a relatively non-technical overview of how it works here:

https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=vk3m204o

And a bit more specifics (but still overview information) about the QoS-classes here:

https://developer.apple.com/documentati ... le-silicon

Note that it is actually often possible for you as the user to override the QoS-class set by the developer. Get the PID (process ID) of the BOINC job you want to affect (using for example Activity Monitor) - and then use the taskpolicy command to set a new quality-of-service class."

Again, this is not a recommendation but you might enjoy some reading! This can get very complex. I'm hoping for an M1 load module (i.e. a version of HW Optimized for the M1) soon!

Regards,
Ray
Ray
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 6:40 pm

Thanks Ray,

That was a helpful suggestion. Unfortunately Apple removed the part of the OS that lets the user set task affinity for a program. All that's left is for the developer to adjust this (or make it adjustable) in their app via programming. I agree I'd like an M1 mac load module as well! Maybe with the next version of Hauptwerk? Hopefully it isn't too far away!
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