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Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

Buying or building computers for Hauptwerk, recommendations, troubleshooting computer hardware issues.
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RaymondList

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 9:04 pm

larason2 wrote:I agree I'd like an M1 mac load module as well! Maybe with the next version of Hauptwerk? Hopefully it isn't too far away!


Yes, I'm very hopeful. I monitor my Mac using iStat and while playing Hauptwerk very "hard" today, my total CPU usage was cruising right around 34%. When looking at the individual cores, only the first performance CPU was somewhat loaded (CPU 3 when numbered 1 through 10). I could learn a lot more if I had someone playing the organ so I could 'click and scroll'. Perhaps that CPU has the audio task? Maybe tomorrow I could get my wife to play large chords really fast so I could work with the computer to investigate more. :D This thing has so very much more power available if only we could use it.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Regards,
Ray
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mnailor

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 8:11 am

Ray, use HW's MIDI recorder to save and play back your performance test while you monitor it. Page 162 of v7 Installation and User Guide.
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RaymondList

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostFri Oct 14, 2022 2:23 pm

Great idea. Since I'm playing a service this Sunday, I didn't have much time to "play around" with this, but this is cleaner than when I looked yesterday because of something I found. I recorded a MIDI of a short section of the Widor. I then played it back twice capturing the screen shot right in the middle of the second playback (you can pick this out in the individual CPU graphs). The top box graph on the right is the total CPU graph (left portion) and individual CPU bar graphs (right portion). I was hovering the mouse over the CPU box so as to display the individual cores. The first two cores are the efficiency cores, and they are a little busy with system work (the red). The next 8 cores are the performance cores. As is quite clear, the last two cores are just about idle. In the display under "Processes", there would be a total of 1000% available. As can be seen, the Hauptwerk task is using 404.3% of the CPUs, "com.motu.driver.pro.audio..." is using 24.4%. The CPU capacity is 49% idle. Lots of horsepower left on the table here! I did learn something. I am using Carbon Copy Cloner to "cross backup" a bunch of disks attached to my box via thunderbolt. I have the backups running often, and that is what was pushing core 3 close to 100%. I'm changing my backup schedules!

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Ray
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostFri Oct 14, 2022 7:25 pm

That's interesting. On my system, the way I test it is run the PAB Gravissimo Wet with all 150 stops on and every coupler active. Then I play fast alternating chords on the great with pedal octaves. Doing that, I fill up the efficiency cores and 6 of the 8 performance cores, but I've never seen the last 2 performance cores filled. What I would like to test is if Hauptwerk could use the performance cores exclusively! At least to test and see if that would solve the problem. I've never had an audio error while stress testing the system, or even big registrations. Usually they happen on smaller organs with not many stops active, the biggest being Notre Dame de Metz with a spare registration (though I have noticed it happens sometimes with adding a stop to a spare registration).
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostWed Oct 26, 2022 11:18 am

Well, today I upgraded to Ventura, and played for about 30 minutes with no errors. But I'm not calling it solved yet! But I'm hoping that will fix it!
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostWed Nov 09, 2022 10:17 pm

Alas again, no dice! It still crops up from time to time. Now to wait for the next Hauptwerk update!
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Nov 24, 2022 3:21 pm

Well, I can confirm that the audio error doesn't show up in a recording. I made a 16 minute recording of myself improvising, and the audio was interrupted twice during that time, but I couldn't hear the audio error on the recording (just a pause in my playing). Not sure that helps figure it out, but it is something!
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostTue Jan 03, 2023 1:02 pm

Just a small update. I've actually found that the audio error doesn't occur if I use the mac's built in headphone port, so that's what I've been using for the past little while. Before I did this, there was one time that I had the audio error, then something happened to the audio driver. The organ loaded (Notre Dame de Metz) sounded like a bit cruncher type synthesizer. I did a recording, and everything sounded normal on the wav file. Restarting Hauptwerk fixed the problem. Looking on the Motu Nation forums, there are a few people that have similar problems on the M1 Max, and so far Motu has been unable to figure out what is going on. Some have fixed it by deleting the Motu driver, and running in class compliance mode, but apparently this increases the latency quite a bit. I'm going to give Motu a bit more time to get back to me on their tech links, and then I think I'm going to sell it. I might try Focusrite or Presonus to see if their drivers work any better on this mac, but not anytime soon! I'm just happy for now to be able to play without audio errors again. I'll let others be beta testers for Motu and Apple!
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RaymondList

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostTue Jan 03, 2023 2:26 pm

Just an FYI: I deleted the MOTU driver and started running my UltraLite Mk3 in class-compliant USB mode when MOTU took months and months to develop a driver for the new MacOS. The increased realism and clarity was astonishing. I've not noticed any huge increase in latency, but maybe that is just 'me'. I told someone else on the forum about the greater clarity I noticed, and he tried it. Via private message, he told me he was also astonished how much better his organ sounded. I don't want to lead you down a wrong road here, but you just might want to give that a try.

Regards,
Ray
Ray
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostTue Jan 03, 2023 3:18 pm

Thanks Ray, I just might give it a try then. I understand that the architecture is similar between the Ultralite and the 24Ao. It's worth a try anyway! I was turned off deleting the driver by suggestions on Motu's forum that it's tricky. Thanks for the response.
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostWed Jan 04, 2023 9:08 pm

Well, I heard back from Motu, and it turns out there was a new version of the Motu control software that was released in July that I must have missed (build 91429). I installed that, and everything looks like it's running better, at least for now! I played for about 30 minutes on the organ that most often has errors, and there was no audio error. The audio quality has improved a lot too. It didn't seem too bad, but with the update I feel like it has more detail than before. Also, the unit was taking a really long time to be detected by the computer (sometimes 10 minutes), but now it loads almost instantly when the interface is turned on. So that may have been all it was! I know better than to rejoice too early though. I'll post back if it rears its ugly head again!

Ray, I wasn't able to try your fix, but I will keep it in my back pocket just in case!
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RaymondList

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostThu Jan 05, 2023 12:07 pm

larason2 wrote:The audio quality has improved a lot too. It didn't seem too bad, but with the update I feel like it has more detail than before.


That is certainly good news! Perhaps the sound quality is now as good with the driver as it has become for me running in USB mode. I don't want to give out names of people who PM'd me without their permission, but here is a portion of what the other user sent me via PM:

"Got rid of the MOTU driver, with instructions from MOTU. WOW... you weren’t kidding about the improvements in the audio; not subtle at all. Much, much cleaner, more spacious, more realistic. I’ve never heard anything comparable in my system."

I'm very glad all is apparently working well for you now. I'm tempted to load up the MOTU driver and test what my system sounds like using it. However, like you, if something is working well, why mess with it.

Warm regards,
Ray
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostTue Jan 17, 2023 2:02 pm

Well, just a quick update to say so far so good! I think this has probably done it, as it's the first time everything looks like it's running as it should. Very happy!
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostTue Mar 07, 2023 8:55 pm

Just a further update that everything is now running great, no further audio errors since the past update. I think this setup is now quite stable. Very happy!
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mdyde

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Re: Mac Studio and Motu 24A0

PostWed Mar 08, 2023 4:48 am

Excellent.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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