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HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

Buying or building computers for Hauptwerk, recommendations, troubleshooting computer hardware issues.
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Organduo

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HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 8:07 am

I'm thinking about buying Mac Mini i5 SC 3.0GHz/8GB/512GB/Intel UHD Graphics 630. It runs on Big Sur. Would my Hauptwerk VI be compatible with such machine?
Vidas Pinkevicius, DMA
Secrets of Organ Playing -
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mdyde

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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 8:45 am

Hello Vidas,

Yes -- Hauptwerk v6 should work on any current/recent Intel-CPU Macs, including Mac Minis. v6 is supported on macOS 11 ('Big Sur'), subject to a few minor/cosmetic known compatibility issues with macOS 11, which are listed in the 'known issues' section in the release notice:

https://www.hauptwerk.com/documentation/

Based on a quick look at Apple's options for the current Intel-CPU Mac Mini, I see that the basic i5 3.0 GHz CPU has 6 cores, and so should be fairly powerful. (The i7 CPU option is only slightly faster at 3.2 GHz, and allows HyperThreading, so my guess would be that it might give something like 20-30% higher polyphony than the i5 option, for a relatively modest cost increase.)

Unless you only plan to use small sample sets, I would definitely recommend getting more RAM than 8 GB. Many medium/larger sample sets need more than that. 32 GB would probably allow a good selection of sample sets to be used (although not some of the very largest surround sample sets in full, for which 64 GB would be a better choice).

Also, if you plan to use a number of different sample sets then I'd recommend going for a larger SSD than 512 GB. E.g. I see that the 1 TB option is also available for a relatively modest increase in price.

Hence if you wanted to be able to use a reasonable number of sample sets (especially medium/larger ones) then my personal inclination would be to go for the i7 3.2 GHz CPU option, at least 32 GB of RAM, and at least 1 TB SSD.

I hope that helps.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Organduo

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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 10:36 am

Thank you Martin! Yes, I will upgrade RAM to 64 GB. Concerning SSD capacity, I have ordered external 4GB SSD turbo drive. Maybe larger external SSD could be used instead of larger internal SSD size?
Vidas Pinkevicius, DMA
Secrets of Organ Playing -
Down-to-earth tips and advice about how to play the organ
www.organduo.lt
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RaymondList

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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 10:51 am

Just be aware that many manufacturers of audio/midi interfaces have yet to release Big Sur compatible drivers. MOTU being a big name that has promised for MONTHS to be coming out with drivers, and so far those drivers are vaporware. (Although I'm now running my UltraLite-Mk4 as a simple USB interface on Big Sur and it actually sounds much better than when I was using the MOTU drivers on earlier versions of MacOS! I've just yesterday had that confirmed by someone else who deleted the driver and was stunned by the improvement and clarity!). Check with your audio device manufacturer for Big Sur compatible drivers.
Regards,
Ray

EDIT: Just for clarity, Big Sur runs Hauptwerk just fine.
Last edited by RaymondList on Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 11:33 am

Organduo wrote:Concerning SSD capacity, I have ordered external 4GB SSD turbo drive. Maybe larger external SSD could be used instead of larger internal SSD size?


Thanks, Vidas. Yes -- you could certainly do that. Selecting the 'custom' option in Hauptwerk's installer allows you to select a drive other than the main one.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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ldeutsch

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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 11:53 am

I recently purchased a similar Mac Mini. I ordered the RAM separately and have 64 GB.

I was surprised when it was delivered as it was running Catalina and not Big Sur as indicated on the Apple web site. If this happens to you, I recommend leaving Catalina in place (as I did) for some of the reasons already noted. I have had no troubles with the Mini and Catalina and I am running very large sample sets at full resolution with a four-manual console.

Les
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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 1:47 pm

Interesting, Les. How many audio output channels are you running?

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 3:08 pm

I only run two! I use Hauptwerk for recording so I use a simple stereo out - the headphone jack on the Mini is quite fine for this. I have a pair of powered monitors and a bass cabinet attached to this and I use HW's internal audio recorder.

The Rodgers console to which this is attached also has a seven-channel audio system for its own voices - and I am installing a larger console now that has 24 channels. I am mixing these down to the seven channels of actual speaker cabinets I already have.

Les
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Organduo

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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostThu Mar 18, 2021 3:09 am

Thank you everyone for valuable suggestions. Mac Mini it is for me then.
Vidas Pinkevicius, DMA
Secrets of Organ Playing -
Down-to-earth tips and advice about how to play the organ
www.organduo.lt
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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 8:54 am

I am interested in replacing my 2009 Mac Pro with a new Mac Mini. My problem is that I can't upgrade the Pro to an OSX known to be good for HW6, which I want to get. I ran across this on the web and wonder what other HW users think: https://eshop.macsales.com/configure-my ... JS2XXXX0GG
Thanks, Craig
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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 9:37 am

Hello Craig,

craigpfeiffer wrote:My problem is that I can't upgrade the Pro to an OSX known to be good for HW6, which I want to get.


Thanks very much for the interest in upgrading Hauptwerk.

In case it helps, I see that the most recent version of OS X that a 2009 Mac Pro can run is OS X 10.11 ('El Capitan):

https://support.apple.com/kb/SP728?locale=en_US

Although not officially supported/tested, I think Hauptwerk v6 will probably actually work and perform well on that OS X version anyway. (We do support Hauptwerk on non-officially-supported OS versions provided that any problems don't appear to be related to the OS version.)

If you did want to try it, you could, for example, perform a clean OS X 10.11 installation onto a separate drive (don't import/transfer any OS X settings/applications when installing OS X), then install Hauptwerk v6 on it, so as to make certain. (When upgrading from pre-v5 to v5+ you'd need to do a clean installation of Hauptwerk anyway, as covered in the upgrading instructions in the user guide, due to changes in the way that Apple required software to be installed for compatibility with more recent OS versions.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mdyde

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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 am

P.S.

If you do instead decide to get a new Mac anyway:

craigpfeiffer wrote:I ran across this on the web and wonder what other HW users think: https://eshop.macsales.com/configure-my ... JS2XXXX0GG


I see that one has a '3.6GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i3 "Coffee Lake" processor', 32 MB of RAM, and 128 GB of storage (SSD).

For better performance, my inclination would be to go for an i5 (or even i7) CPU if possible, rather than an i3. Also, I think you might find 128 GB of storage too little these days (although you could potentially attach a larger external drive via Thunderbolt to use for Hauptwerk).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 11:37 am

Thanks, Martin. It's the "probably" that gives me pause. If I were to follow your suggestion to download HW
VI on another drive, I assume you mean an external drive. I'm completely ignorant of partitions and the like. Yes, I wondered about that Core i3 as well, and appreciate your input. I would spring for a current Mac-Mini, but as I understand it, the newest ones with the M1 chip can only be had with a max of 16gb ram, and more cannot be added aftermarket. After I get HW VI, I want the Caen organ, which I could fit on 16GB, but it wouldn't be optimal.
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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 11:48 am

Wait two weeks before you do anything regarding the Mini. Apple will likely hold an 'Event' during this month to announce new MacBook Pros. There are rumors they will also introduce a redesigned Mac Mini. The rumor mill has the new M1X chip sporting 10 cpu cores and 16 or 32 GPU cores (two versions of the chip). Also, more RAM will be available to order with these professional machines. If you still wanted an Intel chip Mini, there might be some 'clearance' sales.
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Re: HW 6 with Big Sur Mac Mini Intel?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 1:06 pm

Hello Craig,

To add to Ray's reply:

craigpfeiffer wrote: If I were to follow your suggestion to download HW VI on another drive, I assume you mean an external drive. I'm completely ignorant of partitions and the like.


Either internal or external. You could install additional SATA drives internally in 2009 Mac Pros, and SATA drives aren't hugely expensive (especially for 2+ TB 7200 RPM or 10000 RPM SATA hard-drives, but even for 1+ TB SATA SSDs). Internal drives are likely to be cheaper than external.

Installing a new OS X partition on a new drive isn't particularly difficult, but perhaps you could find a local computer expert to help you with that if needed.

However, a new Mac is likely to out-perform a 2009 Mac Pro, potentially by a large margin (but would cost considerably more than putting an extra drive in the Mac Pro, of course).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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