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Mac Studio polyphony issue

Buying or building computers for Hauptwerk, recommendations, troubleshooting computer hardware issues.
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Organtob

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Mac Studio polyphony issue

PostSat Jun 01, 2024 5:21 pm

Hello everyone,

I have Hauptwerk 8 on a Mac Studio Max 64GB.
As an audio interface, I use a Volt 1 from Universal Audio.
The sample set files are on an external ssd, the main program on the internal hard drive. macOS is up to date.

Now I have the following problem (if there is already a solution here in the forum that I have overlooked: Sorry):

Despite a high sound buffer (1x1024), I can't put the polyphony (testing organ) above 4000 without the sound crashing, which seems very little to me.
It also makes no difference whether I go via the audio interface or via the Mac internal sound.
However, the Apple performance monitor still shows me about 30% free CPU capacity.

Does anyone have any idea why they could not be fully used?
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larason2

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Re: Mac Studio polyphony issue

PostSat Jun 01, 2024 5:38 pm

I have an almost identical setup, but this doesn't happen to me. Of course, it depends what sample set you are using! I suspect you've filled the memory to almost too full, and the slight extra RAM use is what's crashing the audio driver. Usually if you have polyphony set too high, you'll get audio errors (notes already playing ending prematurely) rather than crashing. I've had sample sets with 1024 buffer and 7000 polyphony or more with no problems. Try loading the sample set a bit lighter (20 bit instead of 24 bit, for example), and try again. Also let us know what sample set you're testing.
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mnailor

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Re: Mac Studio polyphony issue

PostSat Jun 01, 2024 6:02 pm

Also, please indicate what you mean by "sound crashing". That could mean a crashing noise occurs through the audio system, or the audio driver crashes [exits] (so that all sound stops), or does the Hauptwerk program exit unexpectedly?

Thanks.
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Organtob

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Re: Mac Studio polyphony issue

PostSun Jun 02, 2024 3:51 am

I mean the crashing noise through the audio system.
It occurs when I press more than 4000 pipes at the same time on the polyphony test organ.
Hauptwerk shows me a CPU overload, while Apple's system monitor still shows me enough free capacities.
Here is a screenshot:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5s7b5ld9 ... bjnee&dl=0

The sample set where I noticed the problem is the new Steinmeyer Landau set. The set contains 3 perspectives and has a very big reverb. I only loaded the set in 16 bits anyway. :?

Maybe there's a kind of bottleneck somewhere that I've overlooked
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mdyde

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Re: Mac Studio polyphony issue

PostSun Jun 02, 2024 4:56 am

Hello Organtob,

I don't have a Mac Studio, but in case it's useful as reference my MacBook Pro with an M2 Max CPU manages 6500-6800 polyphony before audio glitches occur (which corresponds well with Hauptwerk's CPU meter going into the red), under the following test conditions:

- Hauptwerk v8.
- PolyphonyTestingOrgan-For4GBMemoryOrMore with 200 keys per pipe selected.
- Built-in audio output with 1x1024 buffer at 48 kHz.
- "Organ settings | Audio engine: Audio engine processing quality" = 'Higher'.
- "Organ settings | Audio engine: ... model quality" = 'Medium'.
- [All other audio engine options at their defaults, with no filters disabled, etc. and all voicing at defaults.]

You would, of course, expect to get a much higher polyphony (at the expense of a noticeable loss of audio quality) by selecting 'Lower' for "Organ settings | Audio engine: Audio engine processing quality".

Note also that enabling "... lo/hi EQ ..." on the voicing screen for any pipes would add some CPU overheads and therefore reduce achievable polyphony,

Also, on Apple-CPU Macs (which don't support the AVX instruction set under Rosetta), if the "Perspective mix: ..." sliders for output perspectives 3 and/or 4 are turned up on the voicing screen you may get less polyphony than you would if using solely output perspectives 1 and/or 2 [only output perspective 1 is used by default]. We do hope to produce a native Hauptwerk port for Apple CPUs in the future which may help with performance in that case.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Organtob

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Re: Mac Studio polyphony issue

PostSun Jun 02, 2024 7:37 am

Thank you, Martin for your quick response.
Which influence has the audio interface on the polyphony limit on macOS?
Would a better one noticeably increase the limit?
Last edited by Organtob on Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mdyde

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Re: Mac Studio polyphony issue

PostSun Jun 02, 2024 8:19 am

Thanks, Organtob.

macOS' built-in audio driver (used for their built-in output) performs well anyway, and my past experience has been that one only gets a small potential gain in polyphony by instead using an audio interface with a top-performing driver (e.g. RME's drivers are especially well regarded for performance, robustness, and support).

Organtob wrote:However, the Apple performance monitor still shows me about 30% free CPU capacity.


By the way, it's normal and expected (on any Mac/PC system) that audio glitches will start to occur somewhat before the operating system's CPU meter will show 100% load, especially since macOS and Windows aren't designed as true 'real-time' operating systems (in the technical sense). Other tasks will be running on the CPU cores aside from Hauptwerk; some spare capacity is needed to absorb that fluctuating load, and fluctuations in timing of the OS's thread scheduling. Also, modern CPUs vary their clock speeds dynamically depending on loads and temperatures. If the OS's CPU meter shows ~70% when audio glitches occur then I would regard that as reasonable.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Organtob

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Re: Mac Studio polyphony issue

PostSun Jun 02, 2024 9:22 am

Thank you very much Martin,

Then I probably simply had false expectations of the performance of my system. Maybe the native silicone support will bring a little more improvement.

Best wishes
Tobias
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mdyde

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Re: Mac Studio polyphony issue

PostSun Jun 02, 2024 9:28 am

Thanks, Tobias. You're very welcome.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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