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Large Church Installation - Greenwood UMC - Greenwood, IN

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Eric Sagmuller

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostWed Mar 23, 2016 9:23 am

Wow Drew, you are really fast ! That folded horn should increase the output of the small driver considerably.

BTW, a Transmission Line speaker is a completely different animal than a folded horn.

Eric
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Romanos

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostWed Mar 23, 2016 9:54 am

I decided to do a little reading on line array theory and found this image from SOS pages-- I think it really helps understand why this is such an important and intriguing endeavor:

http://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/styles/news_large/s3/imagelibrary/l/livearrays8mapp.jpg?yDlULIJ6b0oosTJF_6z8hhu_95siZ_K5=&itok=sc92mVwN
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dw154515

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostWed Mar 23, 2016 10:05 pm

Eric Sagmuller wrote:Wow Drew, you are really fast ! That folded horn should increase the output of the small driver considerably.

BTW, a Transmission Line speaker is a completely different animal than a folded horn.

Eric


Yes, my mistake in the previous post. I was researching TL designs when I found this new folded horn design, and I must say, WOW! I love it!

Image

These little guys are AWESOME! Now, they aren't broken in yet, but they are really remarkably good! They aren't loud, or overly powerful, but they are certainly very clean, clear and articulate! (On a side note, aside from use with Hauptwerk, these certainly make a nice little mid-fi stereo setup with GREAT imaging!)

Once they break in a little better, I will share some more info. In the meantime, I plan on doing some scaling and redesigning to get these things up to full Hauptwerk spec!
Last edited by dw154515 on Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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Eric Sagmuller

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostThu Mar 24, 2016 5:50 am

Sounds good Drew! Keep up the good work!

Eric
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scottherbert

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostThu Mar 24, 2016 9:40 am

Drew, when you say "scaling and redesigning" for Hauptwerk, what are you planning? :roll:

~Scott
"Life is just a dream, it is in death that we truly awaken!"
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dw154515

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostThu Mar 24, 2016 12:10 pm

scottherbert wrote:Drew, when you say "scaling and redesigning" for Hauptwerk, what are you planning? :roll:

~Scott


Well, I like these little guys, and they confirm for me that they will be well-suited in a Hauptwerk setup, in a small to medium sized space. There is a chance that, with enough of them, they would serve quite well in the sanctuary for my church. However, I want to try more designs, following this same idea. (Folded horns/Transmission Lines instead of conventional speaker setups.)

The next build will be this:


Image

There will be some slight modifications being made to it. It is the Windermere^2 design from WodenDesign.
Last edited by dw154515 on Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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scottherbert

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostFri Mar 25, 2016 11:10 am

O.K., that looks cool! What drivers are you gonna use in that one? Since there are 2, am I correct in assuming they are wired out of phase?

~Scott

P.S. This is so much fun!!! You're doing stuff that I always wanted to try! :mrgreen:
"Life is just a dream, it is in death that we truly awaken!"
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Romanos

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostFri Mar 25, 2016 11:16 am

I'd guess they would be wired series parallel (in phase) to effectively create one larger point source.
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scottherbert

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostFri Mar 25, 2016 5:20 pm

That's right, out of phase would be for dipole, right?

~S
"Life is just a dream, it is in death that we truly awaken!"
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murph

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostFri Mar 25, 2016 7:51 pm

dw154515 wrote:
scottherbert wrote:Drew, when you say "scaling and redesigning" for Hauptwerk, what are you planning? :roll:

~Scott


Well, I like these little guys, and they confirm for me that they will be well-suited in a Hauptwerk setup, in a small to medium sized space. There is a chance that, with enough of them, they would serve quite well in the sanctuary for my church. However, I want to try more designs, following this same idea. (Folded horns/Transmission Lines instead of conventional speaker setups.)

The next build will be this:

Image

There will be some slight modifications being made to it. It is the Windermere^2 design from WodenDesign.


If I might make a suggestion for this design, to make it more organ friendly:
Move one of the drivers to the top section of the driver "chamber", i.e. pointing up. (Assuming they are full range drivers). They should be wired IN phase. Series or parallel will surely be more dependent on the amps than the boxes.
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dw154515

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostFri Mar 25, 2016 7:59 pm

Yes, here is a sketch of my design that I was working on (not currently to scale)

Image
Last edited by dw154515 on Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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Romanos

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostSun Mar 27, 2016 11:06 pm

That looks positively awesome. Now I really can't wait to hear how it goes.
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murph

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostMon Mar 28, 2016 7:03 am

Great minds, etc.....
Just one thing to bear in mind: the distance between the drivers in the original design is probably crucial to the effectiveness of the design, as it will avoid both drivers exciting the same resonances in the box. Mabye moving the upper driver to the top, rather than the lower might be better?
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dw154515

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostMon Mar 28, 2016 7:32 am

murph wrote:Great minds, etc.....
Just one thing to bear in mind: the distance between the drivers in the original design is probably crucial to the effectiveness of the design, as it will avoid both drivers exciting the same resonances in the box. Mabye moving the upper driver to the top, rather than the lower might be better?


Yes, the design change basically leaves the drivers in the same location, (ie. distance to pipe mouth).

I have found a new design over the weekend that I also want to try. It is a simple design, using a very common, inexpensive driver, that, with a few slight modifications, may be the best ratio of cost to performance to ease of build.
Drew A. Worthen
Master of Music in Composition - Butler University
http://www.drewworthen.com
Director of Music & Website Admin - Greenwood UMC
http://www.greenwoodumc.org
Field Engineer - Diversified (Formerly Sensory Technologies)
http://www.sensorytechnologies.com
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magnaton

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Re: Large Church Installation - Open Conversation, Please

PostMon Mar 28, 2016 9:30 am

Hi Drew:

I've been following this tread with interest. Thanks for keeping us updated and sharing your designs. I feel these new smaller individual speakers will win with HW for your sanctuary install vs the TLAH arrays. Simply put, having more channels to disperse the sound enhances the realism vs just 2 (or 4 channels) channels with an array of multiple speakers.

There has been previous discussions on the merits of stereo playback vs mono; the latter being able to yield more individual channels but since most samples are recorded in stereo they sound better played back in stereo. This has been my experience as well , however here is a case where the mono argument can have merit albeit with 72 channels! I think this this is a very clever and great way to hide speakers in a living area:

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10333&p=76037

Back to the stereo design, going multi-channel stereo you 'loose' half of your channels for distribution. Forgive me if you know this already. Thus 10 speakers (10 audio channels) will yield 5 stereo channels to work with. But even with just 5 stereo channels, you can experiment with different methods: notes dispersed via an multi-channel algorithm, divisional separation (Choir Great, Swell), selected ranks assigned to a specific audio group. Maybe a combination of the 2? The take away is you'll have plenty of options to achieve a glorious sound. Oh yes lets not forget speaker placement; some angled, some straight, some elevated, again more options to further tweak your sound.

Sorry I know I'm jumping the gun here as you are still in the speaker design phase but wanted to put this out there anyway :-)

Danny B.
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