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Set up 8ch audio with specific ranks only to set speakers?

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schlaegel

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Set up 8ch audio with specific ranks only to set speakers?

PostSun Jun 14, 2020 12:04 pm

I converted a Rodgers 340 console [gutted it, removed sams, added lots of pistons/button, installed Artisan uMidi boards], and I'm using Rodgers speaker cabinets from a couple different installations. I'm using a Rodgers 8ch amp, and it's being fed via a M-Audio Delta 1010LT in the dedicated PC with Win7 Pro 64. I'm familiar with electronics, industrial PLCs, computers, etc., but haven't a clue about MIDI yet. After messing with the HW5 and wading through the manual for a few weeks, I'm still not sure the best approach to set up the audio to work right, and nothing seems to work for what I need. I have the various ranks selected in the mixer to be directed to the specific mono output channels in the Delta 1010, Since I'm using high end organ speaker cabinets, I want specific ranks to only go there, without spreading out over all the speakers, which seems to be the default. I can't seem to get them to only sound out of the selected audio channel without sounding out of the other channels too. I have the bus that has the channel I want to use for those ranks selected, along with the Ch8 subwoofer channel for each. The subwoofer seems to work fine and sounds all the low notes from all the ranks.
Ch 1 Main dia/str - left Klipsch LaScala horn cabinet
Ch2 Main flute/tib to the left Rodgers Box w/ added horn
Ch3 Main reeds - left Rodgers Panel w./ added Altec Theatre Horn
Ch4 Solo dia/str - right Klipsch LaScala horn cabinet
Ch5 Solo flute/tib - right Rodgers Box w/ added horn
Ch6 Solo reeds - right Rodgers Panel w/ added Altec Theatre Horn
Ch7 Percussion / Traps - center [4] KLH speakers w/ added JBL Theatre Horn
Ch8 Pedal - dual 15" Rodgers pedal horn subwoofer

I don't want to range ranks across those different speakers, due to the differing tonal qualities of each, and I tried to match the tonal qualities of the ranks on those speakers that more closely matches the timbre of those speakers. Nothing I've tried seems to work.

Any suggestions on proper setup of HW and the Delta to get it to work right? It plays right now, but as everything keeps crossing over to multiple speakers, it doesn't sound right, and I can't voice anything until I get that resolved. I've got 45 years of electronics experience, but wasn't planning on needing a full MIDI education to get this organ working again, which will be the extent of my real need for any MIDI knowledge.

Also, every time the computer goes to sleep, I have to go into the GENERAL Settings tab and then go to Audio Device and re-select the Delta 1010LT ASIO function to get any sound out again, so I'm obviously not doing something right. Getting really frustrated with setting this up to just have an organ to play.

Current setup:
mxr prst 2
I'm using buses 1-8, corresponding to the desired speaker channel of the Delta output
example
mxr prst 2 *mst mix bus 1 'subwoofer'
Channels Mono: 0008 [=>0008 Analog Out 7/8 Delta-1010LT]

Rank Routing
Main Dest I selected the bus group by desired speaker output channel
Algor Static: cyclic within octave octaves cycled, ranks cycled
[THIS IS PROBABLY SET WRONG, but none of the others seem to help either]
Bass all set to subwoofer bus 1 group, with same Algor
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IainStinson

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Re: Set up 8ch audio with specific ranks only to set speaker

PostSun Jun 14, 2020 1:24 pm

Re Audio
1. It would seem that you are using single mono channel outputs (7 plus one sub). Make sure that you have selected mono when you loaded and cached the organ.
2. When you set the output device for each mixer make sure that you have only selected one device (not a stereo pair). The device list starts with the stereo pairs: you need to scroll down the list to see the single mono channels. Choose the single device.
[There has been some discussion on this recently on the forum.]
Set up one primary mix bus (not master mix bus) for each output channel except the sub channel. Primary mix buses are accessed by going to the very end of the Master Mix Bus list and clicking on the arrow to open the "advanced part" of the screen.
Make sure you are working with the intended preset (its easy to get a bit lost in the long lists HW presents).
3. You need to setup seven output groups one for each of the speaker channels, Each of these groups should only include the corresponding primary mixer mixer associated with the speaker. Also create a group with no assoicated mixer bus - you need this group when assigning ranks to output paths.
4 for the sub wooffer set up the device on master Mix bus 3 (as is conventionally done).
5. For each primary mix bus used for the seven other speakers, set the "sends to" to send the output to master mix bus 3 (for the sub) and to master mix bus 1 for audio recording.
It is important to check that only the sends you want to use are enabled.
6. Ensure that the master mix buses (other than bus 3 (for the sub) do not have any devices connected to them. Check that master mix bus 1 has the recording set on.
7. When you assign ranks to output groups for the organ, ensure that you only assign to a group through output perspective 1. Ensure that output perspectives 2,3 & 4 are assigned to a group with NO associated output buses. Use the default algorithm (it will not really matter as you only have one speaker in each output group).

You should now be able to send any rank to any of the "speakers" by assigning it to the corresponding group. Try testing this using one rank at a time - so that you know each of your output groups is only driving the desired speaker.
The sub channel will be driven by all of the ranks (because of setting the primary mixer buses to send to master mix bus 3. I've assumed that the sub channel ignores all high frequencies and responds only to the low frequencies.
If you want to add reverb you can do this on the Master Mix buses - add the reverb to each if you want to make the whole organ sound a little wetter.

Re Midi
You can check that the midi is coming from the console by using the auto-detech in HW so that console controls can operate the virtual console. The manual is pretty helpful on this.
If you need to check that the midi is being received by the computer you could use a tool such as MidiMedic to check that the midi is working.

Midi is not involved in managing the audio in HW.

I hope this is of some help.

Iain
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micdev

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Re: Set up 8ch audio with specific ranks only to set speaker

PostSun Jun 14, 2020 1:56 pm

*** EDIT While writing this post, interrupted by a phone call, Ian replied (thanks Ian). I've edited the post to be less redundant.

Hello Schlaegel,

Here you are... (this example is done using Mixer 1... less scrolling around :wink: )

- Go to General settings | Audio Mixer
- Scroll down until you see Advanced items... - Click the little arrow to expand the list.
- For each of your channels set the audio output and Bus group (I set some names for each Primary bus and Group bus for clarity but it is optional).

Mixer 8 channels1.JPG
Audio Mixer (click to enlarge image)


- Repeat the process for your 7 channels, setting the name and channel (don't bother with the Bus is in group for now)

Once you setup your 7 primary mixer buses:

- Go to General settings | Advanced audio routing | Audio mixer bus groups or click in your Audio Mixer windows Mixer bus groups
- Now set your Bus group. Name is optional once again. Quite simple simply select a bus group (for simplicity I selected the same 0012 as in the Audio Mix Primary bus for the first bus). Simply TICK the primary bus matchin the bus group
0012-0012
0013-0013 etc

Mixer 8 channels2.JPG
Audiox Mixer bus groups


Once done click ok to close both windows.

Now go to Organ settings | Advanced audio routing | Rank routing and simply route each stop/rank to the right audio group.

AudioRouting.jpg
Audio routing


As explained by Ian, set Master Bus 3 (subwoofer) to channel to 0008.

Hope this helps
Best regards
François

Virtually sharing my enthusiasm and experience with you
Worldwide technical assistance, consultation and ready to play system.

http://www.HauptwerkConsultant.com

AND Hauptwerk Support Manager
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mdyde

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Re: Set up 8ch audio with specific ranks only to set speaker

PostMon Jun 15, 2020 3:45 am

Hello schlaegel,

[Topic moved here.]

To add to others' replies:

schlaegel wrote:Also, every time the computer goes to sleep, I have to go into the GENERAL Settings tab and then go to Audio Device and re-select the Delta 1010LT ASIO function to get any sound out again, so I'm obviously not doing something right.


The audio driver stops when you open the 'General settings | Audio device ...' screen stops the audio driver, and (re-starts) when you close the screen. Opening/closing either of the General Preferences or Organ Preferences screens, or using 'Engine | Restart audio/MIDI' would achieve the same thing. (No need actually to change/re-select any settings on any screens.)

It will just be that the audio driver doesn't handle Windows sleep events (as many audio drivers don't), and so needs to be restarted after the computer re-awakes.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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schlaegel

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Re: Set up 8ch audio with specific ranks only to set speaker

PostThu Jun 18, 2020 1:28 pm

Thanks guys...

I finally got a chance to get back to it, opened up an Alt configuration and started over. Worked great.

Evidently, when I first loaded the 341 organ, I did it in stereo instead of mono. Plus, I missed the advanced options at the bottom of the screen with the arrow to click. I was close, but not close enough to get it to work right.

Thanks again...Jim

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