Placement of Def Tech SM 450's.... PLEASE ADVISE!!

Gents.........

I need some advice on the placement of these 6 speakers.

To start off with..... My room is a rectangular room with 3 sides, the 4th side opening to the rest of the villa, in the shape of a "C", if you will. Ceiling approx 12 feet high.

I essentially have two options to put together for the layout (but I'm certainly open to suggestion):

1. The first is to have the HW console against the "back wall/side of the C" (longest wall left to right) and then have two shelves built on the left and right side walls from where the console is located .... each supporting 3 SM 450's and essentially facing each other and about 7-8 feet above the floor. In this configuration, the speakers would be about 15-17 feet apart from each other. (I hope I've described this ok).

2. Second..... Is to have the console on the left side wall of the room and then set up only 1 shelf behind/opposite the console (behind me as I play) at about 7-8 feet above the floor with all 6 speakers only on the single shelf. In this configuration, they will be about 15-17 feet behind me as I play.

Will having them face each other tend to "block out" or conflict the sounds or rather mix the sounds nicely as it would in the real cathedral?

Looking for opinions on what may be the better solution and again, if you can think of few more options, I'd enjoy hearing of those as well!

Thanks once again to all for your expertise and input here..........

Pat

Pat,

Must think about your situation a bit. I do not particularly care for either of your ideas just now !
The first, sort of out front (or are the shelves way off to one side of you at the console) seem
to have the shelves too far apart for that size of room (which will be pretty dead sound wise).
Nor would I care for all the sound to come from a bit of space behind me as I play.

I prefer the speakers (and I have a rather large multI-speaker array to my front as I play)
much more in front, tho I do have a couple to the rear, some 16 feet behind on the
wall across the room which are about 10' apart to provide a bit of "surround" effect.
An d I see no benefit at all with a stereo array of some sort (I have tried several
ways using either mono or stereo HW reproduction); My large array is presently
using only mono from the ranks; but certainly others have found they like and
use the stereo play back!

However, I might not have the correct picture of your room plan in my mind as
I consider the situation. Will ponder awhile and get back later.

Pat,

If aesthetics permit, most speakers sound better on speaker stands (36" or 1 meter) high, with the speakers out into the room a bit. If it is more important how the organ sounds from the organist's position (on the bench), mounting the speakers symmetrically on the left and right sides of the console seems best to me. If there is a preferred listening position out in the room, try to equalize the angles and distances relative to the "best seat". A subwoofer can be placed wherever it provides the smoothest blend with the speakers. In very general terms, corner subwoofer placement will give the most bass but a less even response, while placing it well away from room boundaries will produce less bass but a more even response. These principles will work well with either stereo or mono/panned samples.

To really optimize how your VPO sounds, use Hauptwerk's voicing facility to even the loudness variations between notes caused by imperfect speakers and room modes. It is very easy to do this by ear, but it just takes some patience to go note by note through every rank in the organ. This should be done for all VPOs that you use regularly. If you make any material changes to your audio routing or composition / placement of your speakers, you would need to voice all over again.

Joe Hardy

Jim...

I quite agree with your assessment actually. I don't really think either would be best.

You mentioned something interesting to me..... placing the speaker in front of your position at the bench playing. Although I won't have that capability due to ergonomics of the villa, I think it may be beneficial to have the 6 speakers spread out ABOVE the location of the console facing out into the room behind me as I play. It's not a large and cavernous room and I don't want it to be overkill.

With my 311, I had speakers above and behind me in my living room (Wife HATED that arrangement!) and I never really liked the sound too much. Got me thinking of putting them up above me this time.

Your thoughts please........

Pat

This may be a silly question, but I can't tell from the website if the Def Tech 450 are passive or powered. COuld you enlighten me please?
Thanks in advance,
John

The 450s are passive and need an amplifier to feed them.

And I agree...it certainly isn't obvious from their literature.

Yes, the Sm450's are indeed passive.

I'm purchasing a Denon 1609 receiver which is a 7.1 sound set up to power them, on the good advice of Darryl.

I'm getting sooooo excited about the whole thing.... I can hardly stand it!!!!!!

I have a strong feeling I will have possibly, the "only" and maybe the largest "organ" in all of the Middle East when it gets all set up here in my villa.

Bursting at the seems...........

Pat

Pat,

Maybe too late, but I have never responded to the question you had above.

If you must have the speakers above your head to "sort of" have them in "front",
I would not be happy with that situation. But I have thought of a possible aid
for that. Find and also use with speaker system you describe VERY
light weight headphone, so light you are not aware of wearing them.

Allow a slight, mono sort, of tap into each of your surround audio channels
to play simultaneously also to these headphone, BUT at very low volume
level. In fact, so soft a sound you are not aware of it. With both
the unit weight and volumes so soft you cannot consciously perceive
the presence of either.

I be believe this is a simple fix with which you will attain the exact
effect of having speaker sound sources, at your seated head level
as being out directly in front of you. Am sure you would be pleased,
and is simple. As a LOT of the surround sound will also be heard
as these headphones are NOT to cover or seal away outside sounds,
but so non-tight you have no idea that they are even present to block or
even "shade" the regular room audio.

Just an idea that came....

Captain,

If you are still open to suggestions, this is the way I have my 6 - SM450's.
The organ console is in the corner of the rectangular living room. As I'm seated at the organ, to my left and about 15' away, I have all 6 black 450's stacked on top of each other from the floor up (with the backs to the wall of course), between an occasional table and a tall grandfather clock. This arrangement seems to "hide" the tower of speakers to some degree. The sub is placed nearby on the floor but not hidden by any furniture as this can sometimes dampen the effect.

I think the speakers need to remain "clustered" and yet somewhat away from the organist to provide an subtle and level sound. To me, when speakers are placed very near the organ itself you end up with the "in your face" sound, and that is not pleasing to the ear. When I'm on the organ bench playing, it's hard to tell exactly where the sound is coming from. And, by the same token, the sound remains very clear and "understandable" even on fast passages. And for those that are sitting in the room, the stack of speakers are NOT pointing directly at them, as this provides too much "presence".

Also, I find that when you want to really crank it up and pull out all the stops, the sound remains very tight, clear and full.

Thanks!

Terry

Terry and Jim:

Thanks for the great input on this. I have another room.... the dining room which is kind of catty-corner to the living room where I had thought I might the speakers so that it's not a direct, in your face sound... which I don't like either by the way.

This way, it has the possibility to mix or breathe a little before it gets to my ears. Granted we're talking milliseconds here........

I appreciate the comments all........

Pat

Hi. I have been doing a lot of experimentation with speaker placement, and i have found that my speakers sound most realistic when lay on their back facing upwards... This fills the room with sound but doesn't pin-point any exact direction as to where the sound is coming from. Another thing that i found worked well was placing the speakers about 22 inches away from the wall, pointing at the wall, angled up at about a 40 degrees (assuming that you have a wall with a hard surface, not thick padded wall paper or carpet) so that the sound reflects back off the wall into the room.

Chris

Thanks Chris!

My living room is somewhat a unique layout in that there is a long/high wall which I had originally planned on attaching a heavy duty shelf on up high... about 9-10 ft or so.... and place the 6 SM450's up there evenly spaced. Maybe I will first try the on the ground laying on their backs pointing up at the ceiling.

The organ itself will be about 15 ft away with my back to the speakers as I play. I do have some other options but there are some limitations as well.

Thanks again, and I'm certainly up for any more suggestions!!

Pat

My living room is somewhat a unique layout in that there is a long/high wall which I had originally planned on attaching a heavy duty shelf on up high... about 9-10 ft or so.... and place the 6 SM450's up there evenly spaced. Maybe I will first try the on the ground laying on their backs pointing up at the ceiling.

The organ itself will be about 15 ft away with my back to the speakers as I play. I do have some other options but there are some limitations as well.

Thanks again, and I'm certainly up for any more suggestions!!

Pat,

You have chosen excellent speakers. Have a look at the YouTube video below by Rob Stefanussen. He has six sm450 with three on each side of his console. If he had more space, they would probably do even a bit better by getting them farther from the walls (a couple of feet is good).

http://www.youtube.com/user/stefanussen#p/a/u/1/ufCAZJF-iDU

Facing speakers backwards or towards the ceiling sounds dreadful based on my experience.

Joe Hardy

I have always found that if the speakers are facing outwards, you can pin point the sound to ' That Speaker '. When the speakers are facing away from the listening position, you can hear the sound but can't identify quite where it is coming from. One of the largest digital organ manufacturers specify that for best results to allow the speakers to have reflections off two surfaces. I have spent hours messing about with speaker arrangement and i have always found that this works best, as long as they are pointing at a hard surface... Although this is what works best for me, everyones tastes and room arrangements are different.

Good Luck.