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New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:58 pm
by MarkEdmonds
Hello everyone,

I am currently checking out Hauptwerk with a view to making a purchase. It's all going very well so far and I am impressed by the feature set and depth of the program. There will probably be a series of questions in this thread as I test the program out. Please bear with me.

At the moment there is feature that is somewhat irritating me a lot.

This is that the registration gets reset when I press Record. It catches me out every time. I set a nice registration, decide to do a quick take to listen back, I press record and *bamm*, the registration gets lost. Much swearing each time.

There has to be a way round this but I can't find a setting anywhere. How can I disable this feature please? I've searched but can't find anything definite on this and being completely new to Hauptwerk, I don't know the forum too well.

Thank you,

Mark

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:12 pm
by giwro
You can't disable it... it is the way things work when recording.

I always save the registration to a piston first if I'm going to record, then hit record (registration goes away) hit piston and it is back.

I think it has to do with how HW records stop data to MIDI

Hope that helps!

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:16 pm
by B. Milan
Yes, you have to reset the registration, otherwise the MIDI file will not capture the registration and it wouldn't be able to be played back later. This also allows you to share MIDI files with others, so they would need the registration to be "triggered" as well. Thus you just need to save the registration to a piston or registration frame etc. then trigger that once MIDI recording begins.

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:19 pm
by organtechnology
Hi Mark,

Welcome to the world of Hauptwerk. What you describe is necessary for Hauptwerk to record the stop combination you have chosen. Play the demo on the St. Ann's and watch the stops being pulled and the shoes moving as well as the key strokes and you will see what I mean. That all happened after the recording started.

The work around for you is: Save your desired registration to a piston first. Start recording and press the piston you just saved to. This will record the piston changes to the recording so that they are set correctly before playback. Any changes to notes, pistons, stops, swells or crescendos are recorded for future playback.

Thomas

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:18 pm
by MarkEdmonds
Thank you all for such quick replies.

I was rather hoping there was some special setting I could use!

What slightly confuses me is that Hauptwerk must know what the stops and couplers settings are so when you start a recording, can't it simply (optionally) insert the necessary MIDI event data to set the registration? Wouldn't that work?

I could save the registration each time but if I am experimenting, I feel that I don't want to commit to a save at that point.

It would be a very welcome feature (if Hauptwerk really can't preserve the registration) to prompt to save the registration before it starts recording so you don't accidentally lose it. This could be a setting so it can be disabled for people who don't want it. One for the feature request department perhaps? :)

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:24 pm
by MarkEdmonds
Moving on to my next question.

Is there a way that I can save an organ with different settings? From what I can tell so far, it seems that any change I make to an organ becomes its standard state.

Let's say I've bought a sample set and there are one ot two ranks that I want to adjust the voicings for use with a particular style and I don't want to lose the original settings. Ideally, I could have two versions of the organ for loading, the original and the adjusted. For example, I might want a dominant pedal reed for one style but softer for another or a solo stop that I want to tone done for ensemble use etc.. Is there a way of doing this so that I have multiple versions of the organ in the Load menu?

Thank again for your help.

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:26 pm
by engrssc
organtechnology wrote:Any changes to notes, pistons, stops, swells or crescendos are recorded for future playback.


Think of the starting point of a MIDI recording as a (necessary) blank slate. MIDI has certain "rules" that preclude some issues that we might consider intuitive. MIDI recording can't "quiz" previous actions and that would included pre-registrations. I've never found these so called limitations to be an issue. Other music software does "it" the same way, so Hauptwerk is not re-inventing the wheel here.

Probably obvious, if as you play while recording, and you make registration changes, these changes will be recorded as well. Hauptwerk, (automatically) needs to "press" General Cancel before it starts to record as has been said.

Rgds,
Ed

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:29 pm
by engrssc
You have 4 versions of Hauptwerk to work with that each are independent of each other. They each can have an organ set up in a different way.

Rgds,
Ed

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:00 pm
by B. Milan
[Topic moved]

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:53 pm
by MarkEdmonds
Ed - thanks for your replies. I couldn't find my topic at first as it has been moved.

If I posted in the wrong forum, I apologise. I wasn't asking for technical support - my setup is working fine but wanted to check out some pre-sales questions that had arisen whilst trying the software out. I couldn't see a pre-sales forum so thought the General Discussion forum was the correct place.

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:20 pm
by engrssc
Suggest you click on View Active Topics which will get you to, obviously, the latest posts. Another choice could be View Your Posts or View New Posts. I find the first choice to work well on this Forum.

The Forum is monitored by Martin and Brett and they make sure the topics are appropriately placed. They also jump in and add their comments to make sure the info posted is correct. Excellent and useful support here. In addition, there are many very knowledgeable contributors that have a wealth of backgrounds to share.

You'll also notice a black square appears in front (left) of a topic (after your next visit) that designates that no new additions have been added to that topic since your previous read. A blue square indicates either a new topic or ones where there are additions that you have not yet read. 8)

Rgds,
Ed

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:44 am
by deWaverley
Welcome Mark - Hauptwerk is quite astonishing software, and I'm afraid there will be no escape for you now that you have been sucked in!

I have never used the recording system of Hauptwerk myself, but it seems to me that your suggestion makes perfect sense. You will always want to use your current registration as the initial registration for the recording, so it would seem far better for Hauptwerk to read those settings and insert them automatically into the beginning of the recording.

Apart from anything else, a 'feature' which destroys creative work [your carefully chosen stop selection] without warning has to be 'a bad thing' on principle.

There aren't many areas where Hwk can be improved upon, but this sounds like it might be one.

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:40 am
by mumblecake
The problem is less that his suggestion makes sense, it is more a problem of implementation and subsequently of people expecting a certain behaviour which will be difficult to satisfy.

The midi file logs only changes, not the absolute state of the console (reason for that is that this is the most common and compact midi standard which allows you to easily manipulate your recording in the midi file during post processing). As such, I assume it would be possible to add the current registration at the beginning of the midi file. Depending on how this part of the engine is architected that might not be trivial though. That doesn't come without caveats either. As a minor one the initial recording would probably sound different, as on subsequent playback the stops would get set while on the first recording they just stay (the one time you get the stop actuation sample played, the other time not).

Once people see that the stops keep their settings, they will think that all settings are kept for a recording which I assume will be more difficult to achieve than just the exception for the stops.

I guess to avoid that it is simpler to simply cancel the whole registration in order to make clear that you have to apply all settings before starting to play.

I personally think that this nothing more than a nice-to-have, certainly not essential. It is simple enough to open up the piston toolbar, press "set" and chose one of the pistons to temporarily store that registration and subsequently deselect "set".

Please also see page 81 in the manual:

https://www.hauptwerk.com/clientuploads ... rGuide.pdf

for details on this "work-around"

Best Regards

Mathis

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:58 am
by organassist
In response the original question of how to record without resetting the stops.

My program OrganAssist has done this for over a decade. Once you start OrganAssist it is continuously monitoring the state of the organ and, when you start playing notes, it starts a new recording by saving the necessary information to set all the stops and expression settings. When you stop playing, it automatically saves the completed track and waits for you to start playing again. I wrote this program because I was tearing out my hair trying to record files and hit exactly the problem you report. I can now record multiple pieces without even thinking about the fact that I am recording them.

P.S. To avoid the problem with stop activation noise at the start/end of the track during playback, OrganAssist can be configured to automatically pause after the stops are set, but before the first note, so you can make an audio recording with a silent start/finish.

Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:24 am
by RichardW
I thought it might be difficult to do - a bit like setting the initial value of an expression pedal, for instance.

But, as was pointed out:
mumblecake wrote:It is simple enough to open up the piston toolbar, press "set" and chose one of the pistons to temporarily store that registration and subsequently deselect "set".


How hard would it be for those actions to be added to the record functionality? You probably need the Yes/No option and a way of remembering the answer between sessions, if required. HW could have a special General piston in its "mind's eye" for just that purpose.