To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

Hi Erik,

Thanks for the kind words, it's much appreciated! There's a few spots in that song where I know I'm not correct with the timing, but I made it work. I spent a few days listening to the Chapuis recording and what he's doing, but that fancy French trill ornamentation stuff is really hard for me to get right. Listening to the details more closely and going over them did help me though. I've got a couple of new ones I'm working on, but not quite ready yet.

Thanks,

Marc

Great initiative! And here's my humble performances uploaded so far:

Meditation (IV) from Symphony No. 1 in C minor

Élévation from Dix pièces pour orgue ou piano-pédalier

My skill level: self-taught, grew up with a organist father and a brother who has taken his masters in organ playing. I did take a few lessons, but didn't have a suitable practice instrument and therefore gave up the lessons. I discovered Haupwerk about 5-6 years ago, got a playable setup 4 years ago, finished my pedal board and keyboard stack two years ago. Here's the story.

I try to practice at least one hour every day, but too often I don't have the time. New pieces takes ages to learn well; but that's the beauty of having HW - I can practice in my own living room whenever I want to! No need to go to a cold church.

I'll try to upload more music. I have quite a broad repertoire, but I need to dust off the skills on the pieces I haven't played in a while.

Hopefully, I will get constructive criticism in my postings. That's just motivating. But do not tell me to race a piece like Mr. Koopman. He's very good, but plays too fast for my taste. Same goes for Mrs. Brish. A lot of show, little feel. If you disagree, you are correct. If you agree, you are also correct.

Anyway, keep posting guys!

Vidar,

Great job on both peices! Nicely played and very smooth. You bring up and share something I would be interested in hearing more about, that being the level of experience those responding here / posting to CCH have.

Me: Also self taught, no prior keyboard experience, and a few lessons with our church organist, but it's been about a year since he's worked with me on anything, we're both too busy it seems.

It all started with me when I bought a Casio keyboard 4 years ago looking for something that would sound like a church organ, I discovered HW about 3-1/2 years ago. Completed an Allen 2 manual console and pedalboard conversion last year, fall of 2010, purchased the HW advanced edition last December, up to then I was using the free version.

I try to practice each morning for about an hour (after I get the kids on the bus for school) and get an hour or two in a couple nights each week, otherwise too busy running the kids around and plenty of other projects to do. New peices like the Couperin one I uploaded took about 2 weeks to play front to back, and about a month more of practicing to play it for the most part mistake free. Yea, I'm reeeaaaaly slow!

Thanks,

Marc

I have a question regarding the copyright issues. I'm a Director of Finance, not an attorney, so forgive my stupidity...

How does posting an audio recording on CCH constitute a copyright voliation? It's not like we've physically photocopied the music and handed it out to someone free of charge. Additionally, the audio performances are made without profit, with no remuneration to the performer in any way, so no royalties would be due to the publisher. For that matter, I've done several recitals and played copyrighted material. Concert artists routinely perform copyrighted material.

What about this... The church organist who plays copyrighted material every Sunday, week after week, and receives pay for his/her services?? Golly, I do this all the time! I don't know a single organist who would ever think of paying some kind of royalty to a publisher for this, or asking permission from the publisher to perform the copyrighted material in public, even if the performer received compensation for doing so...

I had never given this an ounce of thought until reading something about it in this thread.

Will

This may be relevant/of interest:

http://www.ccli.co.uk/pdfs/Fact_File_Playing_Music.pdf

also:

http://www.prsformusic.com/users/businessesandliveevents/musicforbusinesses/Pages/doineedalicence.aspx#6

In which the important paragraph is:

"6. Music used in divine worship
PRS for Music, at its discretion, does not make a charge for music used at a recognised Service of Divine Worship in consecrated places of worship (of any recognised faith), where no charge is made to attendees for admission."

The arrangements/law may be different outside the UK.

Nick

How does posting an audio recording on CCH constitute a copyright voliation? It's not like we've physically photocopied the music and handed it out to someone free of charge. Additionally, the audio performances are made without profit, with no remuneration to the performer in any way, so no royalties would be due to the publisher. For that matter, I've done several recitals and played copyrighted material. Concert artists routinely perform copyrighted material.

What about this... The church organist who plays copyrighted material every Sunday, week after week, and receives pay for his/her services?? Golly, I do this all the time! I don't know a single organist who would ever think of paying some kind of royalty to a publisher for this, or asking permission from the publisher to perform the copyrighted material in public, even if the performer received compensation for doing so...

I had never given this an ounce of thought until reading something about it in this thread.

Let me refer you to a previous discussion of copyright, here on the forum (http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9110).

An excellent overview of copyright can be found at the Gutenberg Project (http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Copyright_FAQ). Another source of information regarding music scores and the public domain is the Werner Icking Music Archive (http://icking-music-archive.org/copyright.html).

Finally: the church organist example you describe.
There is a very good discussion of copyright law, particularly as it pertains to churches in the U.S., to be found at the Presbyterian Church (USA) web site: (http://www.pcusa.org/copyright/). Of particular note:

For churches, the majority of questions involve copying music from hymnals or sheet music and taping services for shut-ins. The Religious Services Exemption contained in the U.S. copyright law exempts from copyright infringement performance of nondramatic literary or musical works or of dramatico-musical works of a religious nature, in the course of services at a place of worship or other religious assembly. This exemption does not extend to copying the music or to audio or video taping of the performance.

The PCUSA article also mentions a book entitled The Church Guide to Copyright Law, which is (reportedly) available for $14.95 from Christian Ministry Resources (800) 222-1840.

More detailed information about copyright and fair use, particularly in the U.S., can be found in The Chicago Manual of Style (http://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Manual-St ... 675&sr=1-1).

I have made a recording of a copyrighted work, and posted it on CCH (http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/5821) It is a hymn--but it was written for a movie. Played in church, no problem (under U.S. law). Recorded, posted on a web site in Canada, and heard by a listener in the U.K.--could get interesting! So I wrote to the publisher for permission, diligently checked with both music licensing organizations in the U.S. (BMI and ASCAP), and carefully made sure to post a link on my CCH listing so others can buy the sheet music. I'm comfortable that this is fair use (if anything, this might encourage more people to buy the sheet music)--but if anybody objects, Daryl will yank it off the site in a heartbeat.

Seriously, who cares anymore? Copyright this and that. If _I_ play a piece on MY organ using the sample sets I have PAID for, it's MINE! Then sue me if I charge anyone for it. Even if a sample set producer write in the EULA that I cannot publish any music using that sample set, I do not care. If I buy a car, I can use it in any way I please. If I rent a car, I can drive anywhere I want. The manufacturer has no right putting limitations on my personal usage. As for the sample sets, I would not buy a set with such moronic limitations!

I actually think that I should have the right to make a CD using my organ and the sample sets I have, and sell it for profit. The only thing I need to do, is to purchase a license for public usage of HW and the sample sets. Just as I could pay a fee to a church and use the organ there. But nobody has any right making money out of the work I do!!!
What if I sent an invoice to the people that uses my ideas when they build their own pedal board (at least one person has copied me to great detail, poor chap! ). Perhaps I should send an invoice to Martin since he has sold at least one HW license because of my website? Nah, I don't think so.

[REMOVED]

Sorry about the language, and sorry to any lawyers out there. But sometimes the law contradicts the rules of reason...




Aaaaanyway, enough side-talk.
Here's a little piece I recorded a few days ago. It was late in the evening, I was in a relaxed, good mood... You know what I'm talking about. The perfect time to sit on the organ bench and float away.

Improvisation over the hymn "Amazing Graze":
http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/5989

Enjoy! If your ears start to bleed, I do not take responsibility!

[B. Milan]

Seriously, who cares anymore? Copyright this and that. If _I_ play a piece on MY organ using the sample sets I have PAID for, it's MINE! Then sue me if I charge anyone for it. Even if a sample set producer write in the EULA that I cannot publish any music using that sample set, I do not care. If I buy a car, I can use it in any way I please. If I rent a car, I can drive anywhere I want. The manufacturer has no right putting limitations on my personal usage. As for the sample sets, I would not buy a set with such moronic limitations!

I actually think that I should have the right to make a CD using my organ and the sample sets I have, and sell it for profit. The only thing I need to do, is to purchase a license for public usage of HW and the sample sets. Just as I could pay a fee to a church and use the organ there. But nobody has any right making money out of the work I do!!!
What if I sent an invoice to the people that uses my ideas when they build their own pedal board (at least one person has copied me to great detail, poor chap! ). Perhaps I should send an invoice to Martin since he has sold at least one HW license because of my website? Nah, I don't think so.

Hello vidarf,

Actually that is incorrect. You do not need a Hauptwerk public license to create a CD or to post public performance recordings. The public license is a public *installation* license which is meant for actual physical public installations of Hauptwerk (see the Hauptwerk EULA), not public performances recorded through Hauptwerk. Also note that some producers do have license restrictions on their sample sets for creating commercially available recordings without prior consent (not our sets however), so you would need to check the licensing for any of these sets if you own them if you wish to abide by the licensing whether you agree with it or not. Note this is not our policy and I am merely informing you of policies from some other producers.

[B. Milan]

BTW, I've removed your joke as we feel that many here would find that offensive. Please refrain from this form of language for future posts since this is a family orientated forum. Thank you.

Thank you for your clarification on the matter, Brett - and sorry for the offensive joke. Did not think that through thoroughly.

Have a nice weekend, folks!

It was late in the evening, I was in a relaxed, good mood... You know what I'm talking about. The perfect time to sit on the organ bench and float away.

Don't You like Whisky?

It was late in the evening, I was in a relaxed, good mood... You know what I'm talking about. The perfect time to sit on the organ bench and float away.

Don't You like Whisky?

Doesn't have to be mutually exclusive ...

Vidarf,

I'm sorry if I didn't communicate effectively in my earlier post.

For the most part, there is no copyright issue with a Hauptwerk sound set. The question is about performing a piece of music that is copyrighted, or recording a performance of that piece of music. Yes--the performer played the music; but the composer thought of the tune, the arranger turned a simple melody into a memorable ballad (Jackson Browne composed "Take It Easy"--but it was Glen Frey's arrangement for The Eagles that was the monster hit of the 1970s). Regardless of our opinions, playing copyrighted music, performing it in public, and recording and distributing those recordings are significant issues.

That may be more of an issue in some countries than in others--in the U.S. (and in Canada, and in the U.K.) it is a very big deal. It's particularly a big deal if you are a web site (CCH) that posts MP3 files for download. When you upload a file to CCH you click a button agreeing that you have the legal right to post that file. If you do not, the copyright owner can demand that CCH take the file down. Under legislation presently being discussed in the U.S. Congress, web sites that are identified as repeat copyright offenders could have their DNS entries removed from the root DNS servers--what some would call "the Internet death penalty." CCH is a very, very good thing--it's important that people using it, and uploading to it, understand the implications.

I'd love to say, "hey--no worries!" But this is an issue where it really pays to be well-informed.

It was late in the evening, I was in a relaxed, good mood... You know what I'm talking about. The perfect time to sit on the organ bench and float away.

Don't You like Whisky?

Nah, I don't drink. But if you could see me when I'm in "that place" wile playing, you might wonder if there was some heavy stuff involved. Music is my drug!

John: I see your point. And I am concerned about that legislation. EU has taken a stand against it, and I think the legislation should be stopped, burned and buried! Copyright issues cannot justify drastic measures like DNS removal. The internet is not American or English (or any other country). American law does not apply in Norway, and there's a lot of differences between countries what's legal and what's not.
Aside from that, the U.S. Congress should really take a step back and consider the implications - should we worry more about copyright than the creation of new things? Is it a good thing when an inventor or artist have to spend vast amounts of time investigating whether his work will raise copyright issues or not?

And take the wind model within HW. As I understand it, there's a patent in the U.S. (not even marginally related to the use of HW) that make it illegal for U.S. customers to get the wind model. If HW was a direct competitor to the patent holder, I could understand it.
And this brings us to the implication for CCH. I can upload anything I want to wherever I want as long as it is my own work - meaning that if I played it, I own it. That's the Norwegian law.
If you make a piece of music and publish the score to it, do not come running to me crying about copyright - I bought the score, you got your money. Microsoft has no rights to get money from any company using Windows in their productivity, except for the software license paid once per user. It's the same thing, just different wrapping.

Anyway, enough copyright ranting from me. I think we can all agree that sharing music you have performed yourself should be legal.

Perhaps it is time for "the international laws for the internet"?

I am not a lawyer, but I can type "Norway copyright" into Google

I can upload anything I want to wherever I want as long as it is my own work - meaning that if I played it, I own it. That's the Norwegian law.

My understanding is that what you said is not true unless you also wrote the music yourself. It might be true, under Norwegian law, if the music was written by a composer who died over 70 years ago - but not otherwise.

Norway has several rightsholders organisations. My conclusion is that Norwegian copyright law is alive and well and you need to acquaint yourself with it prior to uploading performances to the internet.

Here are some links: http://www.creativecommons.no/cache/pd_no.pdf and http://www.clara.no/english/.

Regards,