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Large Church installation UK

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ppytprs

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Large Church installation UK

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 8:07 am

Hi all.

I've posted this on the facebook group, but thought there might be people here who'd be interested but haven't seen it there.

I have recently installed a large Hauptwerk organ in Great Yarmouth minster. I'm not one to brag, but I think it sounds rather good. I encourage anyone interested to go and see/hear/play it. They will be having regular recitals through the summer.

It's using the Peterborough Dry sample set with a 48 channel audio system. M-Audio BX8 speakers and 4 large subs.

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larason2

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostTue Mar 17, 2020 12:05 pm

Very interesting setup! I'm curious how you accomplished connecting the console on the lower level to the speakers on the upper level. Do you have a wired connection, or is it wireless?
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ppytprs

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostTue Mar 17, 2020 2:21 pm

It's wired. MIDI over cat5, and the computer is near the speakers.
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IainStinson

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostTue Mar 17, 2020 4:10 pm

Can I ask a couple of questions please. What “audio” system have you used? What are you using for stop controls?

It looks fine and I hope to hear it sometime (once the present “problem” is over). Thanks for posting the information.

Iain
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ppytprs

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 4:07 am

The stop controls are arcade buttons. They're surprisingly user friendly, and pleasing, given the cost.

The system brain is a MOTU 24ao. Speakers are the aforementioned M-Audio BX8s, and the subs are Martin Audio Cinema sub 1a (I think) powered from a Lab Gruppen LAB2002.

It is worth hearing. Just a shame it's so far out of the way, I doubt many will!
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engrssc

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 5:33 am

As Iain asked, how do the stop buttons work? Push once for on? Push again for off? What are you using to control that function?

Also, how are you extending the MIDI?

Always appreciate learning something new.

Rgds,
Ed
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ppytprs

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 7:05 am

Indeed, push once for on, once for off. Nothing controls that function specifically, it's how all pushbutton controls work in HW. I use MIDI Hardware kit for interfacing. BBS1K for the switches and MIDECO for the LEDs.

The MIDI extender is from MIDI Boutique. A MIDI to CAT5 converter. I'm not all that impressed with this because it requires a non standard CAT5 cable, which was a pain. I'll try a different one next time.
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engrssc

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 7:28 am

ppytprs wrote:Indeed, push once for on, once for off. Nothing controls that function specifically, it's how all pushbutton controls work in HW. I use MIDI Hardware kit for interfacing. BBS1K for the switches and MIDECO for the LEDs.


That's that same system components I have used for lighted drawknobs. With the drawknobs, there are 2 contacts. Pull for turn on and push for turn off.

Further, since the BBS-1K controls 64 (input) contacts, I use the split feature. That is inputs 1 - 32 are set up for note on while inputs 33 - 64 operate as note off. One BBS-1K for each side (up to 32 drawknobs) with a single MIDECO to control the (up to) 64 LEDs. The BBS1Ks and the MIDECO are set to the same MIDI channel, in my case, I used channel 8. I should add, using the BBS-1Ks, I aligned the starting note for each half (1 - 32 and 33 - 64) using the transposition feature built into MIDI Hardware encoders. Also of importance, the BBS-1K boards do not respond to Global Transposition, another MIDI-Hardware available feature. Up to 2 - BBS-1K boards can be daisy chained thus using a single input of a MRG2 master control. Once you program the BBS-1K boards they need to remain connected to the same MRG2 input as the non-volatile memory is stored in the MRG2 , not on the BBS-1K board.

Works very well along with using LITSWs for the lighted thumb (and toe) pistons.

Also I use the MOTU Ultralite AVB at the console to extend the 24 audio channels via AVB ethernet using a single CATe (shielded) cable to the MOTU 24Ao at the speaker/amp location 150ft - 75m from the console. This arrangement permits the HW computer to remain at the console location not needing to extend MIDI..

Rgds,
Ed
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ppytprs

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 8:24 am

Yes, I've done a similar thing before with lighted tabs, though I don't remember the exact solution, and I've just sat for 5 minutes trying to remember! I need to make more notes!
I didn't know you could do that with a BBS1-K. Something to remember for the future.

I did think about putting the computer in the console and using another MOTU device there to create AVB, but it was an awful lot more expensive, and I couldn't see any real advantages to it.
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engrssc

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 10:19 am

When you daisy chain BBS-1K boards, the nearest one (out connection) to the MRG2 will operate as #1, the first set of contacts while the second BBS-1K will operate as the second set of contacts. Only 2 can be connected in a daisy channel. A third will operate the same as the second (#2(.

Not sure about the setup I used with the computer at the console, etc being that much more expensive because in that setup, you don't need the system to extend MIDI and use in place a MOTU Ultralite AVB. I waited and found a used unit in perfect condition unit for less than $350 USD including shipping. For me, at least, the convenience of having the computer at the console location was well worth the difference.

Rgds,
Ed
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ppytprs

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 10:49 am

For me it was going to be £600 for a MOTU unit, or £80 for the MIDI extender.
Plus, I don't really want the computer anywhere near the organist. With a passive console, then it doesn't matter if they turn the power off or anything. Much less likely to make it unhappy.
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johnstump_organist

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 11:25 am

Looks interesting, if I ever take my Great Britain trip maybe I can get there. Is the console new or re-purposed?
Is there a computer monitor/screen at the console? If you want to do any voicing or adjusting of wind supply, de-tuning function etc, do you have to be up at the computer by the speakers? If so, how to do play notes and listen to the sound in the room without other people involved?
Thanks for sharing,
John
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ppytprs

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 12:56 pm

johnstump_organist wrote:Looks interesting, if I ever take my Great Britain trip maybe I can get there. Is the console new or re-purposed?
Is there a computer monitor/screen at the console? If you want to do any voicing or adjusting of wind supply, de-tuning function etc, do you have to be up at the computer by the speakers? If so, how to do play notes and listen to the sound in the room without other people involved?
Thanks for sharing,
John


The console is repurposed, but I changed it so extensively, that I might as well have just made a new one.

There isn't a screen at the console. It's not designed to be user adjustable - just like a pipe organ.
When we voiced it after installation, we brought a screen out on a long lead to the console to enable it to be done.
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engrssc

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 1:25 pm

You can access the HW computer remotely by extending the network connection (RJ 45 of the HW computer) to such as (for instance) the RJ 45 of a laptop that has a convenient touch screen using Remote Desktop Connection:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17463/windows-7-connect-to-another-computer-remote-desktop-connection.

This also can be done using Win 10.

Rgds,
Ed
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engrssc

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Re: Large Church installation UK

PostThu Mar 19, 2020 2:32 am

ppytprs wrote:The stop controls are arcade buttons. They're surprisingly user friendly, and pleasing, given the cost


How did you label the stop controls?

Rgds,
Ed
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