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SAMS

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
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Citroenboi

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SAMS

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 12:59 pm

Hi all

Finally got my tabs moving with Hauptwerk. When I push down a tab manually it feels like the solenoid fires. Is this normal or should it just do it when pushing a piston etc?

Thanks Mark
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larason2

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Re: SAMS

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 1:48 pm

Usually SAMS are mentioned in connection to draw stop mechanisms, but I suppose they could also refer to the solenoids that power stop tab assemblies. In my Allen with a combination action, it doesn’t feel like the solenoid is firing when I push a tab down. You’re probably getting some feedback when you select the stop. What model of organ is your stop action from, and how is it connected to your computer?
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NickNelson

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Re: SAMS

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 1:49 pm

If that is what is happening, then it isn't normal.

My first thought is that there is a MIDI loop somewhere. Putting down the tab generates a note-on message which is
(unnecessarily and improperly) getting into the solenoid driver circuitry which then actuates the tab as well.

Nick
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rayjcar

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Re: SAMS

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 2:17 pm

Compare the action of the tab with Hauptwerk shut down. If there is a noticeable difference, then I agree with the other opinions that voltage is being fed to coil as a result of the contacts closing. Is the timing of the force coincident with the blink of the midi indicators on the Hauptwerk screen?
You can also measure to see if there is voltage across the SAM coils. What you absolutely do not want is for the voltage to be applied continuously, as I doubt that the coils are rated for continuous dissipation.

Ray
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Citroenboi

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Re: SAMS

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 3:04 pm

Thank you. I think it’s must be midi message related. I’ll program the board to a higher channel and see if that helps. Some of them seem to clunk when starting up gauptwerk.
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engrssc

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Re: SAMS

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 3:43 pm

Which c/a are you using?

Rgds,
Ed
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mdyde

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Re: SAMS

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 3:58 pm

Hello Citroenboi,

Citroenboi wrote:I think it’s must be midi message related. I’ll program the board to a higher channel and see if that helps. Some of them seem to clunk when starting up gauptwerk.


Hauptwerk won't usually echo a MIDI message back to a MIDI stop if the corresponding virtual stop was turned on by MIDI from the MIDI stop. Assuming your MIDI stop sends the same MIDI messages as it receives (e.g. MIDI note-on/off messages on the same MIDI channel and same MIDI note number), right-click on the virtual stop, select the 'Adjust ... manually' option, then try using the Auto-detect button (keeping the 'Send matching MIDI output ...' option ticked). If you still have the problem, on the 'Primary output' tab on the same settings screen try ticking the 'Always suppress output (echo) if direct response to input' option, and see whether that fixes it.

I wouldn't recommend making the MIDI stop use a different MIDI channel for output vs. input, otherwise Hauptwerk won't be able to configure MIDI output settings to it automatically when auto-detecting.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Citroenboi

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Re: SAMS

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 4:14 pm

Thanks Martin.
I will check tomorrow. I think the input to the encoder for the pedal for example is channel 9 and the out put to the the decoder is channel 16....
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jkinkennon

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Re: SAMS

PostSat Jun 05, 2021 10:06 am

I've worked with decoders for SAMs for years now and would say that the behavior described is normal for some decoders if that box labeled "Always suppress output (echo) ...." is not checked. It is sometimes easier to let the decoder see all of these responses from Hauptwerk, check the actual physical state of the tab or drawknob against a stops table, and then energize the SAM only when necessary. If your decoder is not suppressing the redundant SAMs movements then check the box.

Without knowing what decoder we are talking about it's difficult to offer more advice but I would point out that the control of SAMs is more difficult than it appears at first glance.
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Romanos

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Re: SAMS

PostTue Jun 08, 2021 9:33 am

Don't forget that there are multiple communication protocols / presets baked into HW too; you can experiment with these settings to see if you get the desired result. I know in one configuration I have (that I clearly need to adjust) a few of my tabs fight the virtual tabs. My other sample sets are correctly configured and this isn't an issue. Perhaps you could try one of the other options. I'm away from HW at the moment but hopefully someone else can elucidate the settings that I mean.

For instance, I discovered that the "johannus, unmodified console" preset doesn't work well with my johannus console, and another option works better for whatever reason.
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engrssc

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Re: SAMS

PostTue Jun 08, 2021 11:07 pm


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