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Allen console fails to trigger combination action

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
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DanielEGawthrop

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Allen console fails to trigger combination action

PostMon Jun 27, 2022 3:34 pm

I'm using my Allen C12c as a "front end" for HW7 running on a new Mac Mini. All the notes work fine and the swell pedals work as expected, however I have been unable to get HW to respond to the Allen's pistons. When I try to associate one of them with the HW combination action the little virtual LED on the screen shows that a MIDI message was detected but it isn't accepted and remembered. Same for the General Cancel.

Here's what MIDI Monitor says the Allen is sending:

GENERALS
Piston 1 sends: Program CH 8 Data 1
Piston 2 sends: Program CH 8 Data 2
Piston 3 sends: Program CH 8 Data 3
Piston 4 sends: Program CH 8 Data 4
Piston 5 sends: Program CH 8 Data 5

SWELL DIVISIONALS
Piston 1 sends: Program CH 1 Data 1
Piston 2 sends: Program CH 1 Data 2
Piston 3 sends: Program CH 1 Data 3
Piston 4 sends: Program CH 1 Data 4

GREAT DIVISIONALS
Piston 1 sends: Program CH 2 Data 1
Piston 2 sends: Program CH 2 Data 2
Piston 3 sends: Program CH 2 Data 3
Piston 4 sends: Program CH 2 Data 4

SET
no MIDI msg detected by MIDI Monitor

R
no MIDI msg detected by MIDI Monitor

GENERAL CANCEL
GC piston sends four msgs:
Control CH 8 NRP MSB 17
Control CH 8 NRP LSB 3
Control CH 8 Data Entry (coarse) 0
Program CH 8 Data: 128

Any ideas?

Dan Gawthrop
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mdyde

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Re: Allen console fails to trigger combination action

PostTue Jun 28, 2022 4:33 am

Hello Dan,

Welcome to the forum.

[Topic moved here.]

First some background:

- Note that when using a digital organ with Hauptwerk it's important that you *either* auto-detect its stops *or* its pistons (assuming that its pistons send piston MIDI messages), but not both, otherwise Hauptwerk's combination system would 'fight over' the states of the stops with the digital organ's internal combination system. See the "Playing Hauptwerk live from a digital organ" section in the main Hauptwerk user guide (pages 261-262 in the current v7.0.0 version) for full details. Assuming that you decide to use the digital organ's MIDI pistons to control Hauptwerk's combination system (and that you haven't also auto-detected the digital organ's stops):

- To be usable with Hauptwerk, any given one of the digital organ's piston needs to send a distinct MIDI message (e.g. a distinct MIDI program change message per piston), and the piston always needs to send the same MIDI message each time you press it (without varying according to the digital organ's internal stop states or its stored registration, for example).

- If, when a piston is pressed, as well as the piston message (e.g. MIDI program change) the digital organ is also transmitting a list of its internal stop states, then that's likely to prevent Hauptwerk's auto-detection from being able to identify the desired piston message from the stop-state messages. However, if that's the case you could potentially configure the MIDI settings for the virtual piston manually.


Hence:

DanielEGawthrop wrote:GENERALS
Piston 1 sends: Program CH 8 Data 1
Piston 2 sends: Program CH 8 Data 2
Piston 3 sends: Program CH 8 Data 3
Piston 4 sends: Program CH 8 Data 4
Piston 5 sends: Program CH 8 Data 5

SWELL DIVISIONALS
Piston 1 sends: Program CH 1 Data 1
Piston 2 sends: Program CH 1 Data 2
Piston 3 sends: Program CH 1 Data 3
Piston 4 sends: Program CH 1 Data 4

GREAT DIVISIONALS
Piston 1 sends: Program CH 2 Data 1
Piston 2 sends: Program CH 2 Data 2
Piston 3 sends: Program CH 2 Data 3
Piston 4 sends: Program CH 2 Data 4


Those pistons should be auto-detectable and usable with Hauptwerk, provided that:

a) You haven't also auto-detected the digital organ's stops.
b) The digital organ is always sending those same MIDI messages from those pistons.
c) The digital organ isn't also sending any other MIDI messages when you press them (e.g. as a result of its stops changing states).

DanielEGawthrop wrote:SET
no MIDI msg detected by MIDI Monitor

R
no MIDI msg detected by MIDI Monitor


They won't be usable unless you can get them to send (constant, single, distinct) MIDI messages somehow.

DanielEGawthrop wrote:GENERAL CANCEL
GC piston sends four msgs:
Control CH 8 NRP MSB 17
Control CH 8 NRP LSB 3
Control CH 8 Data Entry (coarse) 0
Program CH 8 Data: 128


That won't be auto-detectable, since it's sending several different MIDI messages. However, if the MIDI program change message (MIDI channel 8, program change 128) is always sent by that piston (and never by any other pistons/controls) then you could potentially configure Hauptwerk's master general cancel function manually to be triggered by that MIDI message.

To do that, right-click on a master general cancel function (e.g. the 'Gen canc' button on the Registration large control panel), and select "Adjust manually (for all organs, unless overridden)".
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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DanielEGawthrop

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Re: Allen console fails to trigger combination action

PostThu Jun 30, 2022 10:37 am

Martin, Your assistance was invaluable and led directly to a resolution of my problem. Auto detect seems not to work but the manual process worked fine and HW is now responding reliably both to combination action pistons and to the General Cancel. We have triumphed over the adversities and emerged victorious! Many thanks.
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mdyde

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Re: Allen console fails to trigger combination action

PostThu Jun 30, 2022 11:05 am

Thanks, Daniel.

Excellent. You're very welcome.

Just for future reference: auto-detection should definitely work for MIDI program change pistons, provided that no other MIDI messages are also being sent by the console to confuse it. If you wanted to try to track down why that wasn't working you could potentially:

- Load an organ (e.g. St. Anne's).
- Enable the "General settings | General preferences | Advanced ... | Diagnostics: log all MIDI messages received and sent" option temporarily.
- Try auto-detecting one of (e.g.) the Allen's general pistons (e.g. to one of Hauptwerk's master generals on the Registration large control panel), then (assuming it still fails):
- Cancel the auto-detection window.
- Use "Help | View activity log" to see the MIDI messages that Hauptwerk had received from the console during auto-detection. It should also log the reason that auto-detection failed (e.g. another conflicting MIDI message also being received).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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