Firewire devices no longer working after Windows 10 update

I've just updated Windows 10, and my MOTU 828 hybrid mark 3 soundcards are no longer working via firewire. It looks as if this is a general problem with the latest versions of Windows 10:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... ad0?page=1

(please note that there are four pages in this discussion - the most recent message was posted in October 2020).

I've checked the Motu website, and the latest audio and MIDI drivers for these devices are dated 2015 and 2013:

https://motu.com/download

My PC is only 2 years old, so I must have the latest drivers.

As I have two of these soundcards working together, the USB connection is not an option, as I need firewire for them to operate as one unit with ASIO.

I've tried the usual things - rebooting the PC, turning the soundcards off then on, but Windows just can't see them. I do have a Thunderbolt port, listed in the documentation as "ASUS Thunderbolt EX 3 PCI Express 3.0 x4 Card", and Thunderbolt to Firewire adaptors are listed at £29; might one of those solve my problem?

If not . . HELP!

Well I never - my MOTU connections have reappeared - without me doing anything! Perhaps Windows needs a certain number of minutes after an update to sort things out?

This still leaves the question of whether there's likely to be a problem with firewire connections in future; and why did some people have desperate problems whereas I've been fine throughout 2020? If firewire itself stops working, what is the likelihood of it working via thunderbolt?

The more I see Windows and OSX jerking people around the more I am glad I made the decision to switch to Dante AoE.

Take a few minutes to learn about how simple it is to run Dante AoE on a Hauptwerk system at Audinate.com

Thomas

Thanks for the suggestion Thomas - I shall certainly look into this. The possibility that my whole system might become suddenly useless because of a bug in Windows is very worrying. Can Dante use existing soundcards which have USB and firewire interfaces?

Firewire was officially discontinued about three years ago, and Windows 10 no longer supports it, to the point where an automatic update can remove Firewire compatibility. I found this out a few weeks ago when I was trying to find a way to transfer some old home video that I had shot with a Sony camcorder to a PC. The only digital output from the camcorder was Firewire. I had an old PC with a Firewire port, but I had installed Windows 10 on it prior to using it as a print server and to run a scanner (I am also digitising a large collection of photographic negatives and slides).

It took me days of searching before I finally came across this site:
https://www.studio1productions.com/Arti ... wire-1.htm

This has various detailed workarounds for people trying to archive video. It included a download link to what it called the Windows Firewire Legacy Driver, and instructions for installing it - the process was quite arcane and not at all intuitive; it was quite different from any other driver installation I have come across. Anyway, it worked and the Camcorder was now showing in Windows Device Manager. The next problem was finding video editing software that would support importing via Firewire - Adobe removed this feature from Premiere and so, as far as O could tell, has everybody else. Luckily the same article pointed me to a tiny and rather unpolished piece of software written by someone in the Czech Republic which did the job.

Thanks Julian. After my post beginning "Well I never - my MOTU connections have reappeared - without me doing anything!" the Firewire devices disappeared again. Eventually I too found the link you have provided, and after following the instructions my Firewire devices worked again. I wasn't certain whether it was worth posting this, as my original post had not generated much interest; but now I wish I'd mentioned that link, as it would have helped you, and possibly others who may encounter related problems in future.

A further point that may be of interest: when I first connected my MOTU 828s via Firewire I daisy-chained the two units, as shown in the user instructions, and found I could not get both running simultaneously. It took all my free time for three weeks to solve this problem - my computer has three Firewire outputs (no doubt from the same card), and when I ran a separate lead to each MOTU from separate computer ports, everything worked as expected. Despite MOTU's instructions to the contrary I needed a word clock lead to synchronise the two units. One then has to use the Audio Console to designate one unit as Master and one as Slave; and this has to be done whenever the computer is re-booted, as the Audio Console software resets them to a default which doesn't work for my configuration.

And after installing the "legacy" driver, running two leads from the Firewire port only caused one MOTU to operate. This time, daisy-chaining the Firewire connections as per instructions DID work! I've left the word clock lead in place, as it still seems to be needed. Strange indeed are the ways of Windows . . .

The link which explains about legacy drivers also explains that using a Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter will probably not solve the problem; and that the type of chipset can determine success or failure. I have a Texas Instruments (TI) chipset, which at the time was recommended as being compatible with most configurations. If I ever need to upgrade this computer I shall be careful to transfer that Firewire card to the new machine.

Using a Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter won't work for video due to fundamental differences in the way that the data are encoded. Firewire carries video as a continuous stream, whereas Thuderbolt breaks it up into packets. I don't know how this applies to audio, where the amount of data being shifted around is a lot less.