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In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
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Rimokatolik

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In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostSun Jun 09, 2024 2:00 am

Hello experts, I am testing Cubase 13 trial for my use. I kinda got cautious of "free" DAWs and need something else. I have "interesting" issue with HW VST (and the other one I tried) that notes and CC mesasges and passed through, but program change messages are not. I cannot figure out why, but it seems to be more generic issue. One of the free DAWs I tested worked fine though. Also, in Cubase Stenberg's synth VST works fine, and program changes are passed to it. Has anyone experienced something like this? Is there a solution?

I have not tried HW VST in Reaper yet, but I did the other VST and it also did not pass program change messages to VST.
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mdyde

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Re: In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostSun Jun 09, 2024 4:46 am

Hello Rimokatolik,

[Topic moved here.]

I don't have Cubase installed at the moment, and the version of Cubase I have currently isn't quite as recent as v13, but I don't recall encountering any problems with it, or with Reaper, with regard to sending MIDI program changes to the Hauptwerk VST Link plug-in. I'd suggest temporarily turning on the "General settings | General preferences | Diagnostics: log all MIDI messages received and sent" setting in Hauptwerk, then after trying to send a MIDI program change from the MIDI sequencer (Cubase or Reaper) use "Help | View diagnostic log" to see whether Hauptwerk received anything as a result.

Also check (e.g. in its documentation) whether the sequencer has any global/project preferences relating to how it handles program changes.

Note also that program changes set as properties of the sequencer's track might get (re-)sent whenever pressing Play or Stop in the sequencer, but you should also be able to enter/record MIDI program changes as events directly into the track (as for note-on/off data, etc.).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Rimokatolik

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Re: In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostMon Jun 10, 2024 1:25 am

Thank you, I tried MIDI logging and Hauptwerk indeed does not receive PCs from Cubase. Will research more.

Also, I retested another VST (Opus) and while like Hauptwerk, does not receive PCs from Cubase and Reaper, it does from Waveform. But unfortunately, I cannot load Hauptwerk in Waveform, so cannot test it.
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Rimokatolik

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Re: In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostMon Jun 10, 2024 12:49 pm

Is anyone able to try just to confirm please? So for me Cubase 13 and Reaper 6 do not pass PC messages to Hauptwerk, but they pass all other, however I found Waveform 13 (free one) passes everything on. Hauptwerk is VST2, same behavior I see with Opus app (EastWest) which is VST3.

Also, Martin, I am not sure if anyone tried PC messages with Hauptwerk as they are actually not essential, and not used much, everything can be configured to work without them. I could also avoid them, but I would like to resolve this issue if possible as it will simplify something for me little bit.
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Re: In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostMon Jun 10, 2024 1:21 pm

I tried to put MIDI monitors in Cubase, and if I put one before and one after HW VST, then second monitor does not receive PC message, but if I put both in front of HW VST then both of them receive PC message. So, seems to me, PC messages are flowing through, but somehow HW VST is dropping them.
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mdyde

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Re: In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostMon Jun 10, 2024 1:54 pm

Hello Rimokatolik,

If MIDI logging is enabled in Hauptwerk, and if the relevant MIDI IN port is enabled in Hauptwerk (e.g. the HauptwerkVSTLink MIDI IN port, if routing MIDI from Cubase via that) then Hauptwerk will definitely log any and all received MIDI messages of any kind (including program changes). Hauptwerk's handling of MIDI program changes is exactly the same whether via the HauptwerkVSTLink MIDI IN port or any other MIDI port -- exactly the same code is called in each case. Also, there is no difference between how MIDI program changes are passed via the HauptwerkVSTLink compared to any other 'short' (non-sys-ex) MIDI messages, i.e. when receiving/routing MIDI the same code is called for a MIDI program change message as it is for a MIDI program change message, for example. (The VST SDK handles handles all 'short' MIDI messages identically.) Also, if you can pass MIDI program changes to Hauptwerk via the HauptwerkVSTLink from some VST hosts but not others then Hauptwerk must be receiving MIDI program changes via VST properly.

I'm afraid I don't really have time at the moment myself to set up Cubase or Reaper and test it with them -- very sorry -- but hope you manage to get it working.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostMon Jun 10, 2024 2:18 pm

P.S. If your MIDI program changes are definitely inserted as MIDI events within the track (as opposed to track properties), I suppose it's conceivable that Cubase and/or Reaper are calling the VST SDK's function to set a plug-in's VST program number ("setProgram"), instead of actually sending them to the plug-in as MIDI events. Hauptwerk needs to receive actual MIDI program changes as MIDI events, not VST SDK "setProgram" calls. If that's the case, perhaps there is a preference (or project property) in the host to make it send MIDI program change events in the track as actual MIDI program change messages.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Rimokatolik

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Re: In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostMon Jun 10, 2024 2:40 pm

Thank you Martin very much for info. I will continue digging. And I apologize, I did not ask you to try this, but I was hoping if anyone else who already has Cubase or Reaper, has time to try this out. The thing here is that PCs may never be used, I have never used them with Hauptwerk before, only tested them now when I wanted to use them with another VST. So if somebody else may try we can know for sure if PCs are working or not.
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Re: In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostTue Jun 11, 2024 3:28 am

Thanks. You're very welcome. Hope you manage to get it working how you'd like.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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eivind

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Re: In Cubase program changes are not passed to HW VSTq

PostMon Jul 22, 2024 2:44 pm

Hello!

I am currently on HW5 (which I still struggle with) - I think I bought a newer update some year without installing, I need to build my new computer before migrating to a newer level of Windows (currently I am on Win7 64). Anyways - however I rely on Cubase.

The best version of HW I had was 4 (latest update). Although I have managed to route audio directly (without using the VST) I have had severe problems routing audio to separate HW into several Cubase channels. It just didn't work. For me this is important because I use a dry organ - and will mainly use better convolution reverbs than what HW has on offer. My arrangements also need me to control stuff in Cubase - because when used, the HW organ will be a part of a larger arrangement with other instruments playing.

To your question:
MIDI is no problem with the HW VST. It is very good - just as any plugin. Not sure why you are talking about program changes - personally I set up HW and use the thumb pistons (that contain various settings) on my console and they register fine with MIDI - also when recorded and played back (they are in fact MIDI-notes that play on different channels than the five channels my manuals/pedals use - the possibility to use note on and offs on various channels to control settings is a special strenght in HW - especially when used with HWs MIDI learn function). But I cannot answer for audio routing past two channels. My organ console has been left for years now - but recently I completed my swell pedal setup - and have tested the MIDI today (connections and stuff). I will most certainly move back to HW during this fall.

I hope my issues are sorted with in newer versions than I am currently using. And - I really recoomend the HW developers to have the latest Cubase Pro version on their computers. Both Win and Mac. Steinberg are the developers of VST so I find it a tad strange that these things cannot be tested at HW... as long as the software is delivered with a VST plug.
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