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MIDI communication dead/non existent

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Gedact8

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MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostThu Jun 10, 2021 8:21 pm

I had previously tried experimenting with a couple of sequencer programs so I could try to play MIDI files through Hauptwerk but with the ability to change input channels since some were sending everything to channel 0 (Pedal) which I did not have much luck with, however since then I have lost all MIDI signals throughout my computer.

I had been also previously been using another VST program (Carla) to run small VST organs separate to Hauptwerk, this gives a visual representation of all MIDI and audio equipment and allows you to easily see what is routed where to make it easier to use and setup, this should show any keyboard connected as an input and output but since fails to recognise anything. However I can play MIDI files internally using Carla and only internally, I am unable to send this as an output to imitate a keyboard (I should have realised it could do that before trying a load of different sequencers). I do not know if MIDI has failed as a result of using sequencers or through Windows update but this has left me without any working MIDI for the past five months. I have tried testing signal from my keyboard with MIDI-OX as recommended by someone on here but this fails to recognise any MIDI device on startup and won't launch. I am starting to think I will need a music production PC to get it to work again going off what people have said elsewhere, but this is not a viable option due to cost.

I was at one point trying to find a console as an alternative practice instrument but it seems there are no affordable used organ consoles available, further asking around leads me to believe this is because of the need to certify materials due to new laws and old owners not wanting to risk selling a used organ console cheaply that might not be compliant and just arranging disposal instead. The most affordable I could find is a new Viscount console but that would also be out of my price range.

I have tried reinstalling everything as well as finding a few drivers for stuff I don't have that might patch over the default drivers but nothing has worked, I don't know what else I can do to get it to work and I don't think I would be able to extend my license since I have been unable to use it.

Is there any way to restore MIDI?
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larason2

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostThu Jun 10, 2021 8:56 pm

For midi to work you need something that generates Midi signals, either a program or an external midi keyboard. These are transmitted on one of 16 channels. Depending on the sequencer program, you may be able to designate what notes go to which channels. In Hauptwerk, in the keyboards menu you can designate which keyboard will respond to messages on which channel. I’m not as familiar with windows, but even if you don’t have a built in driver for Midi you can always download one. Maybe another windows user would be able to recommend a specific one that works for them. I believe that after a certain version of windows it supports Midi natively, but I could be wrong.
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mdyde

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostFri Jun 11, 2021 4:16 am

Hello Gedact8,

(For my own reference, I see that this is a continuation of your previous topic on trying to get MIDI working again here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19422&start=15#p147734 .)

mdyde wrote:If your MIDI interface(s) have drivers (as opposed to being 'class-compliant', which means that they use Windows' default/built-in MIDI drivers) then you should be able to download the latest versions of their drivers from their manufacturers' websites. If so, try (re-)installing those, then rebooting the PC for good measure.

I'd suggest you then try running the freeware MIDI-OX ( http://www.midiox.com/ ), with no other software running. In its 'Options | MIDI Devices' screen, make sure that the 'MIDI Input(s)' (MIDI IN ports) to which your MIDI console/keyboard(s) are connected are highlighted, OK that screen, then press keys on your MIDI keyboards. MIDI-OX will show you any MIDI messages that the computer is receiving (via those highlighted/enabled MIDI IN ports).


As larason2 mentioned, in order to play Hauptwerk live from a physical music keyboard or organ console, the keyboard/console needs to provide MIDI output (either via a 5-pin 'MIDI OUT' connection, or via USB), which needs to be connected to your PC.

If your keyboard/console has USB-MIDI connection then you can connect it directly to the PC (or via a USB hub, but if using a hub then make sure it's a good-quality one from a reputable brand, and that it has its own dedicated power supply; insufficient power to USB hubs may well prevent USB devices connected to them from working properly). If connecting your keyboard/console via USB then make sure that you've downloaded and installed the latest driver from its manufacturer (if they say that any is needed, as opposed to the device being 'class-compliant', which means that no separate driver is needed).

If instead your keyboard/console (only) has a 5-pin DIN MIDI OUT port then you need to connect it to the PC via a MIDI interface (or to a MIDI IN port on a combined audio-plus-MIDI interface), and you need to make sure that the (latest) driver for the MIDI interface is installed on your PC (if its manufacturer says one is needed). If connecting a MIDI (or audio-plus-MIDI) interface to the computer via a USB hub then make sure the hub is a good-quality one, and has a dedicated power supply, as above.

If the keyboard/console needs to be connected via 5-pin DIN MIDI but you don't already have a MIDI interface (or audio-plus-MIDI interface), then I'd recommend getting a good-quality one from a reputable musical hardware brand. E.g. if you only have one keyboard/console to connect to the PC, the Roland UM-One Mk2 looks like it could be a good candidate, and is listed as being compatible with current Windows and macOS versions, as well as older ones:

https://www.roland.com/uk/products/um-one_mk2/features/

I haven't tried it myself, but Roland's equipment is usually reliable in my experience. Its driver can be downloaded via the 'Downloads' tab on that page. Roland UM-One Mk2 interfaces are readily available from musical equipment shops, such as Andertons in the UK:

https://www.andertons.co.uk/roland-um-o ... -interface

Once you keyboard/console is properly connected to the PC (whether via USB directly, or via 5-pin DIN MIDI OUT to a MIDI IN port on a MIDI interface), and the relevant driver is installed (if one is needed), your PC should then see it, including MIDI-OX (via its 'Options | MIDI Devices' screen).

Does that solve it, allowing MIDI-OX to see the MIDI device?

If not, what make/model is your MIDI keyboard/console, and how have you connected it to your PC?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Gedact8

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostFri Jun 11, 2021 7:53 am

Hi, I have continued here as the other post was supposed to be about sequencer programs before this issue occurred.

I have a Keystation 61es which is supposed to be able to run without drivers through the Windows default MIDI (there are no drivers available on the M-Audio website). Unfortunately although the device gives the USB connected chime (rather than the USB failed chime), it does not appear in Hauptwerk, Carla or MIDI-OX although it has worked before with Carla and Hauptwerk.

I also have a Yamaha PSR-E413 although the board with the power lead socket has failed so I have been unable to test with that one. Interestingly I could clearly make out a distinctive difference in production quality between the main processing board (probably made in the building that had that nice musical siren on the roof before being relocated and demolished a couple of years ago), compared to the rest of the circuit boards & wiring done wherever the final assembly takes place which was not up to the same high quality standard of something that would have been built in Japan like the main motherboard. I don't currently have the tools needed to repair the board with the issue on it so that one will have to wait for now.

I have noticed there doesn't seem to be an output MIDI signal being generated by Hauptwerk as this would show up in Carla but there is nothing, should this show up or is MIDI out only on the advanced version?
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engrssc

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostFri Jun 11, 2021 8:41 am

Temporarily turn on the ' Diagnostics: log all MIDI messages ... ' option on the ' General settings | General preference

Rgds,
Ed
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mdyde

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostFri Jun 11, 2021 8:44 am

Thanks, Gedact8.

Gedact8 wrote:I have a Keystation 61es which is supposed to be able to run without drivers through the Windows default MIDI (there are no drivers available on the M-Audio website). Unfortunately although the device gives the USB connected chime (rather than the USB failed chime), it does not appear in Hauptwerk, Carla or MIDI-OX although it has worked before with Carla and Hauptwerk.


Please try:

- Unplug your M-Audio Keystation 61es' USB cable.

- Shut the computer down, and fully switch off the mains power to the computer, and the Keystation, and to any other USB hardware that you might have connected.

- For the purposes of this test, for now, disconnect all other USB devices, except for the PC's keyboard and mouse (in case there is some device conflict).

- Wait at least 30 seconds.

- Switch mains power back on to everything. Also make sure that the Keystation's power supply unit is plugged in, and that the Keystation is turned on (but not yet connected via USB to the PC).

- Boot the computer and log into Windows. (Don't launch any software yet.)

- If any audio or MIDI applications (including Hauptwerk, MIDI-OX, Carla, etc.) launch automatically then exit all of them.

- Wait at least 60 seconds, to make sure that Windows has had time to finish booting and loading its drivers.

- Now connect the Keystation's USB lead directly to a USB port on the PC (not via a USB hub). (N.B. Hauptwerk doesn't support 'hot-plugging' audio, MIDI, or USB devices, and most other audio/MIDI software won't either, so so it's important that you don't connect or disconnect any audio, MIDI or USB devices whilst Hauptwerk or any other audio/MIDI software is actually running -- always exit it before doing any of those things.)

- Wait at least 60 seconds again, so that Windows has had time to finish initialising the Keystation's USB connection.

- Now launch MIDI-OX, and see whether it sees any MIDI ports (which should be visible via its 'Options | MIDI Devices' screen'). Does it?

Gedact8 wrote:I have noticed there doesn't seem to be an output MIDI signal being generated by Hauptwerk as this would show up in Carla but there is nothing, should this show up or is MIDI out only on the advanced version?


Hauptwerk can output MIDI to MIDI devices/ports (if you have any), but it isn't itself a MIDI device/driver, so you won't see it as a MIDI device in other software. (The same is true in both the Advanced and Lite Editions.) It's possible to use physical or virtual MIDI cables to route MIDI between two MIDI applications. The Lite Edition doesn't support the Hauptwerk VST Plug-In Link, so you can't route audio or MIDI to/from Hauptwerk via VST in the Lite Edition.

However, let's concentrate on getting the PC to recognise your Keystation as a MIDI device for now.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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randallschmid

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostFri Jun 11, 2021 3:40 pm

M-Audio does have a driver for the Keystation 61es.

It can be found here:

https://m-audio.com/support/drivers

under "legacy"
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IainStinson

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostFri Jun 11, 2021 5:13 pm

For Windows 10, the MAudio page says
Keystation 61es is class compliant and does not require an additional driver for the selected operating system.

Iain
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randallschmid

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostFri Jun 11, 2021 6:38 pm

Retracted. Iain is correct.
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IainStinson

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 8:34 am

The key station 61 es sends the midi generated by pressing keys out on the usb connection to the computer. It also sends the generated midi through the midi out socket at the rear of the unit.

When connected via usb then It should appear as a midi device visible from the Windows device manager.

If it doesn’t, you may find that you could still use the device if you also have regular midi interface for your computer with a five pin (din) input. The regular midi interface should appear in the device manager. If it does the connect the keystation midi out socket to the midi in socket of your midi interface.

(Gleamed from the keystation 61 es manual at https://storage101.ord1.clouddrive.com/v1/MossoCloudFS_ad29221c-ac1c-4d51-bc49-56d483fb7e01/maudio_documentation/050505-KSSeries_UG_EN01.pdf?temp_url_sig=0a6a52b0aab7400928cfe31c14be32b833fea615&temp_url_expires=1623590915)

Iain
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randallschmid

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Re: MIDI communication dead/non existent

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 9:40 am

You should also check Windows Device Manager to make sure nothing is disabled or has a missing/disabled driver.
.
Particularly under "Software Devices", "Midi" should be enabled.
Under "Sound, Video and Game Controllers" you should see your Keystation listed.

In both cases, when you double-click the entry, the device status should be "The device is working properly".

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