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Midi playback conundrum!

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theandric

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Midi playback conundrum!

PostSat Jun 19, 2021 9:21 am

Ok, so I have a midi file I saved through Sibelius, and I load it into Hauptwerk to playback. For some reason, the midi is being played back on the pedal. I've tried changing a few midi channel assignments with no luck, and I've tried some forum and google searches to no avail.

For what it's worth, the music starts in the treble clef and then adds the bass clef part after about 8 bars.

thanks in advance!
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mdyde

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Re: Midi playback conundrum!

PostSat Jun 19, 2021 9:59 am

Hello theandric,

Hauptwerk's built-in MIDI recorder/player uses and requires the MIDI implementation described in brief in the 'Recording and playing back live solo performances: the built-in MIDI recorder/player and its fixed, predefined MIDI implementation' sub-section of the Hauptwerk user guide (page 236 in the current v6.0.2 version), with the full implementation documented via the 'Recording | View Hauptwerk MIDI recorder/player fixed, predefined MIDI implementation (for this organ)' menu function within Hauptwerk (with the relevant organ loaded).

Hence if you want to play a MIDI file using Hauptwerk's built-in player you need to make sure that your MIDI file uses that specific MIDI implementation, editing the MIDI file externally to Hauptwerk accordingly if needed.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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theandric

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Re: Midi playback conundrum!

PostSat Jun 19, 2021 12:32 pm

Thank you very much.
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mdyde

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Re: Midi playback conundrum!

PostSat Jun 19, 2021 2:21 pm

Thanks. You're very welcome.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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theandric

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Re: Midi playback conundrum!

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 10:43 am

Hello,

I'm still having trouble figuring out this complex process, even reading through the user guide. Perhaps someone with experience scoring with Sibelius could contribute to this thread. I would really appreciate it.
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mdyde

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Re: Midi playback conundrum!

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 1:12 pm

Hello theandric,

I can't myself help you with how/whether you can do it in Sibelius, but from Hauptwerk's point of view you simply need to make sure that your MIDI file is saved with the MIDI implementation described via the 'Recording | View Hauptwerk MIDI recorder/player fixed, predefined MIDI implementation (for this organ)' menu function within Hauptwerk. That describes the MIDI implementation that Hauptwerk's MIDI player expects MIDI files to use.

For example, if you load St. Anne's, and go to that menu function, you will see that, when playing a MIDI file, the the virtual Great keyboard will respond on MIDI channel 2, the Swell on MIDI channel 3, and the Pedal on channel 1. Hence those are the MIDI channels your MIDI file would need to use in order for them to play on the intended virtual keyboards in Hauptwerk's MIDI player.

Maybe other Sibelius users can help you with how to export MIDI files from Sibelius using specific MIDI channels, assuming that's possible within Sibelius (otherwise you would potentially need to use some other MIDI editor software to edit the MIDI files accordingly after having exported them from Sibelius, and before opening them in Hauptwerk's MIDI player).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mdyde

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Re: Midi playback conundrum!

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 1:53 pm

(P.S. We do also have an enhancement request logged regarding potentially adding the ability for Hauptwerk to import MIDI files that had been saved from other applications, with Hauptwerk applying user-defined MIDI implementation mappings as it opens/imports them.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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OrganoPleno

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Re: Midi playback conundrum!

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 2:48 pm

theandric wrote:I'm still having trouble figuring out this complex process, even reading through the user guide. Perhaps someone with experience scoring with Sibelius could contribute to this thread. I would really appreciate it.


I've never used Sibelius, but I have a lot of experience using MIDI files with Hauptwerk. Basically, there are two ways to do this. First, using the Player that comes inside Hauptwerk. This is the one that requires a specific channel arrangement, as has been discussed. If you could find out what Channels you need, and then set up Sibelius to transmit everything on the correct channels, that would work just fine.

The second approach is to let your MIDI Sequencer program (such as Sibelius) play the MIDI file to Hauptwerk via a Virtual MIDI Cable (such as LoopBe). For this approach, I like to set up the Virtual MIDI Cable to be interpreted as "Console Input" within Hauptwerk. Then all of the Channels will be exactly the same as those used by your Console... which you can easily test by using a MIDI diagnostic program like "MIDI Medic" from Canada MIDI-Works, or by looking at the input lights inside Hauptwerk. You still have to set up all of the Channels within Sibelius... or within any other MIDI Software of your choice (such as the free version of Anvil Studio) which can read, play, and modify a file produced with Sibelius... in case it turns out to be easier that way, One big advantage of this approach is that the Software can send "Channel Volume" information which can operate the Swell Shutters within Hauptwerk during playback... again assuming the correct Channel assignments are made. I have not been able to get a MIDI file of my own to operate the Swell Shutters within Hauptwerk by any other means.

For either approach, your MIDI File MUST be structured such that there are different tracks for different musical parts... for example one for the Pedal line and one for each Manual division that you will be using. Only in this way is it possible to assign the correct Channel numbers to each part, so that they can then play correctly within Hauptwerk... by one means or another.

Once everything is running the way you like, you can have Hauptwerk make a MIDI Recording of your MIDI File being played... and then THAT one will run inside Hauptwerk's own player just fine, taking care of all Registrations, Channel Assignments, Swell Shutters, and so forth with no further concern and with no further need for any external program.

Hoping this is helpful.
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randallschmid

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Re: Midi playback conundrum!

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 5:22 pm

The below link should prove helpful:
https://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpce ... 3&&guest=1

From this link, it appears that you need to create a manual soundset in Sibelius for the HW sampleset you are using. For example, if your HW sampleset requires pedal on channel 1, great on channel 2 and swell on channel 3 (as St. Anne's does), create the manual soundset with three 'instruments' - one for each division with the appropriate midi channel. Then assign a separate staff in Sibelius for each soundset instrument (division). Note that each HW sampleset may use different channel assignments. You will need to look at the sampleset's midi implementation in HW to see if it is different than St. Anne's.

If you set your HW input midi port is set to 'sequencer', HW will not look at the keyboard controller to division midi channel assignments that you may have set up in HW.
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OrganoPleno

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Re: Midi playback conundrum!

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 10:50 pm

randallschmid wrote:From this link, it appears that you need to create a manual soundset in Sibelius for the HW sampleset you are using.


Looking through the Sibelius Reference Guide (available on-line), these are some of the sections that you will want to learn about:

6.1 Working with Playback

6.2 Playback Devices

"There are several types of playback device, including Virtual instruments that use VST."

Pg. 584: Sound Sets

Pg. 586: Manual Sound Sets Page

6.15 Virtual Instruments for Beginners

6.16 Working with Virtual Instruments

-------------------------------------

Since they do make mention of VST Instruments, this means that Hauptwerk can be addressed in VST mode, which eliminates the need for a Virtual MIDI Cable.

I would try to go about all of this in some systematic fashion. First, sending something to Hauptwerk in any fashion whatever. It seems you have already accomplished this, since everything was sounding on the Organ's Pedals. Then, try to send it to Hauptwerk in a different way... like playing everything on the Great Manual instead. Then eventually figure out how to separate the different inputs (different Staves in the Score) and route them to different outputs (different Divisions in the Hauptwerk Organ).

It looks like Sibelius uses a lot of its own specific Terminology, which you will have to become familiar with in order to master this Program. But be assured, the Software is intended to handle Orchestration... sending different tracks (staves) to different Instruments of the Virtual Orchestra... simultaneously. (This is in fact done with MIDI Channels, whether or NOT Sibelius likes to acknowledge that little fact.) And the Organ, of course, is merely a collection of Virtual Instruments... each Division (Pedal or Manual) speaking independently, simultaneously, with its own voice.

Playing that Voice here is Step 1. Later on, there might be the issue of How to Control that Voice... what we call "Registration". This is an aspect which Sibelius did not know about when it was being designed, so it would require some sort of work-around. One way to handle this is to teach Sibelius how to operate the "Stepper-Plus" Piston on the Organ, giving you the next one in a series of pre-defined Registrations for that particular Piece as performed on that particular Hauptwerk Sample Set. But this sort of thing will come further down the road, after you have mastered the Basics.

To summarize: Yes, it can be done.

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