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Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

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B777Captain

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Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostSun Jan 03, 2021 3:41 pm

Wondering if someone who has the P450 sample can try this out on their set.

The String Ensemble (8 ranks) divisions on my Great manual (and possibly others but haven’t tried that yet) have a DRASTIC difference in volume when the “Main String” tremulant is off vs on... Almost deafening difference.

I was trying to tweak my strings on the Great and just wasn’t hearing much difference even with the String Ensemble at both 8 ft and 4 ft volume at maximum! There was little to no change at all. Then, I happen to turn off the Main String Trem and just about blew my speakers and ears out when I played!!!

Surely that cannot be normal.... can it????

Thanks for your assistance on this.

Pat
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damuehlbauer

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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostSun Jan 03, 2021 4:38 pm

I have the Paramount 341, but it has the same 8 rank string ensemble.. Like most of the voices on this organ, there are both untremmed and tremmed voices in the rank voicing tool, so it is possible that they could be set differently. You need to make modifications to both versions and test both.
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mdyde

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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostMon Jan 04, 2021 8:30 am

[Topic moved here.]
Best regards, Martin.
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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostWed Jan 13, 2021 11:54 am

Hi Pat,
I have the Paramount 450.

I have not experienced the dramatic change in volume that you describe.

I have specifically loaded the voice/s which you listed and there is little difference between the tremulated voice and the non tremulated voice.

Have you tried a organ reset?

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EddieW
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mdyde

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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostWed Jan 13, 2021 12:11 pm

Hello Pat,

To add to others' replies, since the Paramount sample sets have separate virtual 'ranks' for tremulant-on and tremulant-off versions of the real ranks, note also that (in addition to them having separate voicing settings via the voicing screen), if you had routed the two virtual ranks to different speakers/groups/buses then they could potentially sound different.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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clemolo

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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostSat Jan 16, 2021 5:50 am

There are seperate volume controls for tremmed and untremmed voices in the 450. Right click on the stop (on your computer screen ) then scroll down to access the adjustments page
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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostSat Jan 16, 2021 10:26 pm

Clemolo...

Yes I’m aware of how to change volume on all stops by doing what you suggest.

However I’m now also finding that pretty much all stops (or at least the highest pitch ones) on my Great manual volume control do not change volume at all with trems all selected.

Why would that be? I want to get a little more “chirp” in the 1’s, 2’s and 4 ft pipes but am unable even with complete maximum volume to complete minimum volume. That is just non realistic. If they’re not adjustable, why would Paramount even have volume adjustment showing as I ONLY works for non trimmed sound..... and we sure don’t use that much on a theater organ.

Well, I’ve read here on the forum there is a new Theater organ sample coming out so hopefully that one will actually do what it should.

Disappointed in my 450 for voicing control

Pat
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mdyde

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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostSun Jan 17, 2021 6:05 am

Hello Pat,

B777Captain wrote:on my Great manual volume control

B777Captain wrote: If they’re not adjustable, why would Paramount even have volume adjustment showing


Could you clarify specifically what control you're referring to by your 'Great manual volume control' and by 'Paramount ... volume adjustment'?

I.e. exactly how are you trying to adjust the volumes? Using some particular virtual slider on the Paramount 450's virtual console? Or via some MIDI slider/knob (auto-detected to what, if so)? Or via some some setting on one of Hauptwerk's settings screens (e.g. the voicing screen, or audio mixer screen)? Or a slider/value on one of Hauptwerk's control panels?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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B777Captain

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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostWed Jan 20, 2021 7:09 pm

This issue I’m having problems with is 2 or 3-fold, but I will just focus on one here for ease of explanation:

1. When I adjust the volume either up or down using the right click and then “adjust...’. There is no volume increase or decrease even though I’ve “adjusted....” the volume with the right click. This ONLY HAPPENS when my trems (tremulant particular... for example, tibia trem stop is engaged) are engaged/ON. If the Trem stops are not engaged, then the volume DOES increase or decrease as it should.

So.... I’m trying to understand why this happens when trems are engaged (no volume increase/decrease) and when trems are not engaged (normal volume increase/decrease) I honestly cannot get it any simpler in words than this.... Lol

Pat
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damuehlbauer

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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostWed Jan 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Can you possibly post some screen shots of what control you are adjusting? Like others, I just cannot picture what you are adjusting.
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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostWed Jan 20, 2021 9:36 pm

That is a completely monumental task just to put pics on this website... so sadly, no I am not able to post pics. I’ve had this discussion to no avail with the web operators.

What I think I will have to end of doing is making a video of what I mean.....

Pat
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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostWed Jan 20, 2021 9:50 pm

When you right click on a stop, you get a menu.

The menu has things such as Auto Detect..., Adjust voicing or surround etc.....

This is what I”m talking about. When I select the adjust voicing prompt, it then brings up the page where you can adjust the volume of each individual note. That is what is acting in a way that shouldn’t regarding the trems being off or on.

YouTube video hopefully with the audio you can tell the difference with.

Pat
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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostThu Jan 21, 2021 6:43 am

Hello Pat,

When right-clicking on a virtual stop, the 'Adjust voicing ... for rank ...' option is simply a convenience function to open the voicing screen, with the stop's primary virtual rank pre-selected.

Since the Paramount series use *two* different virtual ranks for each stop (one recorded with the real tremulant off, and one recorded with the real tremulant on), you instead need to voice the 'tremmed' version of the rank.

To do that, go to the voicing screen (e.g. by selecting 'Organ settings | Rank voicing ... from the main Hauptwerk menu at the top of the screen). Now scroll down through the list of ranks and select the desired rank entry that is suffixed 'Trem'. Then when you adjust the voicing sliders they will affect the 'tremmed' version of that rank. For example, for the Paramount 450's 'Tibia Clausa I' stop, you can see that there are two entries, with the 'trem' version directly beneath the standard (non-'tremmed') version:

Paramount450TremRankVoicing.jpg


If you want to adjust both the 'tremmed' and the 'non-tremmed' versions of the rank, then you can highlight both of the relevant entries at the same time (e.g. on Windows by holding down the SHIFT key when clicking on the second entry). The sliders will then adjust both virtual ranks simultaneously, like this:

Paramount450TremRankVoicing2.jpg
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Paramount 450 Issue with String Ensemble Volume?

PostThu Jan 21, 2021 9:06 am

Martin's explanation is beautifully clear as always, but I'll explain in different words in case that helps.

If the trems are off, and you adjust the first rank to which Hauptwerk links, you will hear the voicing changes as expected. If you then turn on the trems, any adjustments will be lost, because Hauptwerk is now playing the tremmed samples; whereas your adjustments were to the untremmed samples. This caught me out several times when I started using the Paramount organs!

You also need to remember that most ranks on theatre organs are extended, so it is not possible to adjust 4 and 2 foot stops independently, as can usually be done on a church organ.

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