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HW's Shut Computer Down option

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MPiercey

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HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostSat May 08, 2021 2:31 pm

I have noticed that when I have a sample set loaded and I shut down the system with HW's File/Shut Computer Down, it closes HW (like it should), then attempts to shut down the computer. While it looks like everything is shut down (monitor etc goes off etc), the computer stays running for about 5 minutes afterwards. This is not a one time issue, it is repeatable every time.

If, however, I shut down HW on its own, and then manually shut down the computer, everything is off within 25 seconds. I'm guessing that there is some driver or such that is not being released with the File/Shut Computer Down option, but I'm not sure. Does anyone have any idea as to what is causing this, and more importantly, how to fix it?

I have reinstalled Windows 10 numerous times, and while things seem to work correctly for maybe 5 boot cycles, this problem returns every time. Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks
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micdev

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostSat May 08, 2021 3:58 pm

Hello MPiercey,

I've never seen a Hauptwerk system behave that way, also you're saying that it is working correctly after reinstallation for about 5 boot cycles. Would it be possible that during that time (5 cycles, Windows update if=s downloading new patches and installed them, one of those patches causing the problem?)

During that 5 minutes wait time, do you see any activity, light flashing (HDD/SSD activity light) or all the lights (except power) are Off? Does

Martin will be able to confirm that when shutting down from Hauptwerk, Hauptwerk simply exits and calls the shutdown process. When the shutdown process starts, Hauptwerk is done and gone.

Is Windows 10 a recent, updated version or are you running/Installing an old version? If so, then install Windows and update it to the latest version (there was a bug with slow shutdown when a USB-C device was connected). Also make sure that you are running Hauptwerk 6.0.2.018 (the latest version)

Have you updated your drivers, especially the audio and MIDI drivers. Also can you test the following. In Hauptwerk go to Organ | Unload organ . Once the organ unloaded, shutdown the computer using Hauptwerk File | Shut computer down . Any change?

Also, if you try File | Re-start... . Does the computer re-start rapidly or do you have the same 5 minutes delay.

Keep me posted.
Best regards
François

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mdyde

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostSat May 08, 2021 4:09 pm

Hello Mel,

In case it's applicable (e.g. if you aren't running Hauptwerk v6.0.2), v6.0.2 included this change:

work-around has been implemented for a performance issue in Windows 10 which could result in stopping audio/MIDI occasionally being very slow when running Hauptwerk at Windows real-time priority.


Also, current versions of Windows 10 can be very slow to release locked memory. v5+ contained this change as a work-around for that:

PCs: organs should unload much faster on recent Windows 10 versions if Windows' page file is completely disabled (as a work-around to a performance bug relating to locked memory in recent Windows 10 updates, which Microsoft is aware of and aims to address properly in the longer-term).


Hence make sure that you have 'no paging file' set for each drive in your Windows settings. Here's the excerpt from the Hauptwerk installation instructions in the main Hauptwerk user guide (page 24 in the current v6.0.2 version) that covers how to do that:

Especially with recent Windows 10 versions, disabling Windows’ page file can allow organs to load faster, and unload much faster. However, doing so will prevent Windows and other applications from being able to use more (virtual) memory than your PC actually has RAM, so might adversely affect the performance of the computer when used for purpose other than Hauptwerk. Hence if your PC is used exclusively or mainly for Hauptwerk, or if you have plenty of RAM, you might wish to disable the Windows page file, for best Hauptwerk performance. To do so in Windows 10: go to Windows’ Settings via the Start menu, select System, select About, click System info, then click on the Performance | Settings button on the Advanced tab. Select Adjust for best performance, then click the Advanced tab. Click Virtual memory: Change and ensure that No paging file is selected (for each drive, if your PC has more than one), then click Set. Finally click OK on all of the windows and re-boot the computer if you changed any settings.


That aside, Hauptwerk's 'shut computer down' function exits Hauptwerk in the same way as exiting it normally, except that after Hauptwerk has finished unloading everything completely, the very last thing that it does before actually exiting is also to tell Windows to shut down. I don't know why that's sometimes being slow on your system, I'm afraid.

Edit: P.S. I see Francois and I replied at the same time.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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MPiercey

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostSat May 08, 2021 5:32 pm

Hi Martin and François, thanks both for your prompt replies. My Windows 10 is the 2020 Pro edition. It has not been connected to the internet with this latest install (it was connected/updated with some of the earlier installs, with the same problem.

During the 5 minutes it tales to shut down, there is no HD activity.

I am running the latest version of HW, 6.0.2.018

If I unload the organ first, and then use HWs File/Shut Computer Down, I still have the problem of the 5 minute wait.

If I use File/Restart, I still have the problem.

Windows page File is completely disabled for all drives.

I'm going to connect it to the internet shortly, and will report back if that makes any difference, but in the past it has not.

Thanks,
Mel.
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micdev

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostSat May 08, 2021 8:57 pm

Hello Mel,

For testing purposes, can you try the following

- Re-enable Windows page file.
- Have you disabled SYSMAIN? If yes, then re-enable it.

Still having the problem?

About your computer, is it a "home computer" or a "Server class" computer? Server computers sometimes has all kind of features. Would it be possible that there is a "cool down period" setting in your Bios who is enabled? (But in that case why only when exiting from HW and not with Windows shutdown. Check you BIOS (if you're comfortable playing with it, if you know what you're doing... wouldn't want to brick your computer :oops: ) and see if there is some settings who could explain this behaviour. (But why ok then after 5 cycles you get the problem?!?)

When shutting down, during the 5 minutes period, what happens if you press the Power ON button, does the computer starts?

Really weird...
Best regards
François

Virtually sharing my enthusiasm and experience with you
Worldwide technical assistance, consultation and ready to play system.

http://www.HauptwerkConsultant.com

AND Hauptwerk Support Manager
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mdyde

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostSun May 09, 2021 4:54 am

Hello Mel,

A quick thought, to add to Francois' suggestions:

It might be worth also trying one of the 'spare' 'Hauptwerk (alt config N)' configurations (desktop short-cuts), with no MIDI IN or MIDI OUT ports at all ticked, and with a different audio device selected (e.g. just a DirectSound driver for a PC built-in output, if available), just to try to see whether the problem might be specific to some particular audio or MIDI device.

Hauptwerk does tell each enabled audio and MIDI device to close/unload before that very final step of telling Windows to shut down, but Windows might perhaps not actually fully unload a driver until the Hauptwerk executable itself has exited.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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engrssc

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostMon May 10, 2021 1:16 am

mdyde wrote: best Hauptwerk performance. To do so in Windows 10: go to Windows’ Settings via the Start menu, select System, select About, click System info, then click on the [i]Performance | Settings[/i] button on the Advanced tab. Select Adjust for best performance, then click the Advanced tab. Click Virtual memory: Change and ensure that No paging file is selected (for each drive, if your PC has more than one), then click Set. Finally click OK on all of the windows and re-boot the computer if you changed any settings.
[/quote]

Not finding Performance Settings button etc under System info on the latest W10 version.

Factual article re Virtual memory:

https://www.minitool.com/lib/virtual-memory.html

Rgds,
Ed
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mdyde

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostMon May 10, 2021 3:37 am

Hello Ed,

engrssc wrote:Not finding Performance Settings button etc under System info on the latest W10 version.


The article you linked to describes the same location for that:

3: In the "System Properties" window, click "Advanced" tab, and then click "Settings" under "Performance".


... as my quote from the Hauptwerk user guide does:

click on the Performance | Settings button on the Advanced tab.


I've just checked again, and in the version of Windows 10 that I'm currently running (Windows 10 build 1909) those instructions (both the user guide and the article you linked to) still describe the process correctly:

Win10PerformanceSettings.jpg


Do you mean that in the latest Windows 10 build that 'Settings' button is no longer there?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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micdev

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostMon May 10, 2021 5:49 am

Hello Ed,

[quote=engrssc]Not finding Performance Settings button etc under System info on the latest W10 version.[/quote]

In Windows' latest version you can click Control panel > System and Security > System, a modified version of the SYSTEM page (normally accessible by clicking Windows logo | Gear | System) with additional options in the right pane/column will be displayed. One of these options is "Advanced system settings". This will open the System properties Panel.

For some reasons, when you click WinLogo | Gear | Sytems, these additional options aren't displayed.

You can also navigate to c:\windows\system32 and double click SystemPropertiesAdvanced.exe to open that panel.
Best regards
François

Virtually sharing my enthusiasm and experience with you
Worldwide technical assistance, consultation and ready to play system.

http://www.HauptwerkConsultant.com

AND Hauptwerk Support Manager
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evertjan

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostMon May 10, 2021 6:25 am

A bit shorter: in "search" (near the Start button), type sysdm.cpl + Enter and you get the same window. In this case the Computer Name tab is shown, but the other tabs are available/shown.
Works in Windows 20H2 and also in all previous versions (W7, 8).
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engrssc

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Re: HW's Shut Computer Down option

PostMon May 10, 2021 7:29 am

mdyde wrote:Do you mean that in the latest Windows 10 build that 'Settings' button is no longer there?

Correct. (Leave it to M/S to make "improvements")

What I'm running:

Edition. Windows 10 Pro

Version. 20H2

Installed on. 10/‎25/‎2020

OS Build. 19042.964

Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0

Latest update(s):

April 13, 2021—KB5001330 (OS Builds 19041.928 and 19042.928
(Not sure why there is a difference in the above listed OS build, 19042.964 and these?)

On one Search for Performance Settings - there is a list of checkboxes pertaining to Appearance Options with the Let Windows Decide as default.

I get "no results found" searching for c:\windows\system32

Admin Required which I have.

Rgds,
Ed

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