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Bass Coupler and Combinations

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psallo

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Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 6:32 am

I have implemented the Bass Coupler from the Fourth Piston Toolbar as a reversible piston. This works, except that I'm having to re-engage the Bass Coupler piston every time I change general pistons. Is there a way to adjust the Bass Coupler piston with some setting that makes it work independently of the combination action, so that it stays engaged when I change generals? Thanks!
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mdyde

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 6:41 am

Hello psallo,

[Topic moved here.]

The bass coupler is always stored/recalled by the combination action -- that isn't something that you can override, I'm afraid. I will log as an enhancement request that you'd appreciate some means of doing so.

Currently, if you want the bass coupler to be on all of the time in your combinations, you'd need to adjust each of your combinations accordingly (i.e. recall each combination, turn the bass coupler on, then store the combination again via the setter).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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psallo

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 8:10 am

Thanks, Martin, for the fast reply!

Thanks especially for logging this as an enhancement. The Hauptwerk organ in question was installed in our church just this week. We are immensely pleased with the sound, and very impressed with Hauptwerk overall. In our situation, however, the principal accompanist is a fine pianist with no organ experience, so there will be a heavy reliance on the Bass Coupler for a while until they can acquire some pedal technique. Assuming the Hauptwerk / Virtual Pipe Organ approach becomes more widely used in churches, it seems safe to assume that our situation will occur more and more often.
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mdyde

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 8:12 am

Thanks, psallo.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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engrssc

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 9:34 am

psallo wrote:In our situation, however, the principal accompanist is a fine pianist with no organ experience.


While there seems to be an adequate amount of piano teachers around, there is a dwindling amount of organ teachers. All of my former organ teachers have either died or more longer teach. :cry:

And, yes, a couple of our wanna-be organists with piano background rely heavily on the bass coupler.

Rgds,
Ed
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psallo

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostSun Jun 13, 2021 6:36 pm

I think we may have a solution to the Bass Coupler vs. Generals dilemma. The basic idea would be to copy our existing generals 1 - 10, which are in stepper block 000, if that's the right terminology, to stepper block 100. Then, we would add the Bass Coupler to generals 1 - 10 in the 000 block, but not in the 100 block. When our pianist plays the organ, the Bass Coupler would be available to them sort of by default in the generals. When one of us who is an organist plays, we would just remember to increment the block to 100, e.g., in the Registration large control panel.

I should verify the method for copying generals from one block to another. Would this work:

1. With the block set to 000, push general 1.
2. Increment the block to 100.
3. Push our SET piston, which I believe is linked to the Setter button in the Registration large control panel.
4. Decrement the block back to 000.
5. Repeat for generals 2 - 10.

Or, would I need to do something like this:

1. With the block set to 000, push general 1, which should light up the xx0 button in the Registration large control panel -- right?
2. Click on the Copy reg button.
3. Increment the block to 100.
4. Click on the Paste reg button.
5. Push the SET piston, or click on the Setter button? Or does the Paste reg effectively set general 1x0 without SET / Setter?
6. Decrement the block back to 000
7. Repeat to copy and paste generals 2 - 10 to generals 1x1 to 1x9.

When the copy / paste operation is complete, and we want to use generals 1x0 - 1x9, would we then only have to increment the block to 100 in the Registration large control panel, etc.? Or would we have to increment the block to 100 and click on something else?
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mdyde

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostMon Jun 14, 2021 4:10 am

Hello psallo,

Yes -- you can certainly use blocks of the stepper frames as simple generals. Hauptwerk v6 has dedicated functionality for that (allowing 10-based cueing/triggering and/or 100-based cueing/triggering), and also for copying blocks of frames around (so as to avoid the need to copy frames individually as you described).

Assuming you're using v6, please see the 'Combination stepper (all)' large control panel ('View | Large floating control panels') and the following sections in the user guide:

- 'Registration menu: combination stepper (registration sequencer): Navigating stepper frames non-sequentially (random-access)' (pages 100-102 in the current v6.0.2 version).

- 'Registration menu: combination stepper (registration sequencer): Editing stepper frames' (pages 104-106).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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psallo

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostTue Jun 15, 2021 6:56 pm

Martin, thanks for your helpful replies here and to my other questions.

I believe I successfully copied block 000 to block 100. But, I have not succeeded in being able to set our 10 general pistons in block 100, independently of block 000. I have associated general pistons 1 - 10 both with Master Generals 1 - 10 and with Trigger cued buttons xx0 - xx9, in the Registration large panel.

Can you verify that I should be trying something like the process on Hauptwerk VI UG page 86:

• Navigate to block 100.
• Engage the desired stops, couplers and tremulants you want to capture [in this case, by pressing general piston 1, and including or excluding the Bass Coupler]..
• Turn on the setter function (either on the virtual organ console, or on a control panel, or using a piston toolbar, or using the Registration | Setter (capture mode) menu function).
• Click on the general [Master General 1? Trigger cued xx0?], divisional, stepper or other combination piston to capture the current registration to the piston.
• Turn off the setter function again. (Alternatively, there is an option on the General settings | General preferences screen for the setter to cancel itself automatically after capturing.)
• Repeat for generals 2 - 10.

Thanks!
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mdyde

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostWed Jun 16, 2021 3:53 am

Hello psallo,

psallo wrote: I have associated general pistons 1 - 10 both with Master Generals 1 - 10 and with Trigger cued buttons xx0 - xx9, in the Registration large panel.


Not quite -- you definitely *wouldn't* want your 10 MIDI pistons mapped to both master generals and stepper trigger pistons, otherwise both types of combinations would get triggered (yielding unintended results) whenever you pressed one of those pistons.

Please try:

1. On the Registration large control panel, right-click on each of master generals 1-10 and select 'Clear all MIDI ...'.

2. Do likewise for stepper trigger pistons xx0-xx9.

3. For good measure, verify that your 10 MIDI pistons are no longer triggering anything.

4. Now use right-click auto-detection (e.g.the 'for all organs' option) to auto-detect the 10 MIDI pistons to stepper trigger pistons xx0-xx9.

5. Now set the stepper 'cued' frame to 000.

6. Click on the master general 1 button on the control panel, to recall its combination.

7. Turn the setter on.

8. Press your first MIDI piston (=stepper trigger piston xx0) to store the registration to stepper frame 000.

9. Turn the setter off again.

10. Repeat steps 6-9 for each of the remaining nine pistons. (I.e. recall master general 2, store it to stepper frame 001 using the xx1 trigger piston, recall master general 3, store it to stepper frame 002 using the xx2 trigger piston, etc.)

11. With the setter (still) off, check each of your 10 MIDI pistons in turn to make sure that they are recalling the intended registrations (without the bass coupler), i.e. that the first MIDI pistons (=stepper trigger piston xx0) is recalling the registration which you previously had stored to master general 1, that the xx1 piston is recalling the registration which you previously had stored to master general 2, etc.

12. Save a copy of the combination set (file) via 'Registration | Save combination set as ...' as a backup for good measure.

13. Now go to the 'Combination stepper (all)' large control panel.

14. Set the stepper 'cued' frame back to 000.

15. Set the stepper editor's 'Block size N=' to 100 (e.g. by clicking on the '100' button).

16. Click its 'Copy' button.

17. Now set the stepper 'cued' frame to 100.

18. Click the stepper editor's 'Paste (ovr)' button. When asked 'Are you sure you want to paste (overwriting) a block of 100 frames at cued frame 100?', click the 'Continue' button.

19. Press your first MIDI piston again (=stepper trigger piston xx0). It should recall the same registration that it did before (i.e. the registration that you previously had stored to master general 1). Since the stepper's 'cued' frame number is set to 100, you should see the stepper's 'Current' frame number becomes 100+0=100 (i.e. doesn't change).

20. Turn the setter on.

21. Turn the bass coupler on.

22. Press your first MIDI piston again (=stepper trigger piston xx0) to store the registration (which now also includes the bass coupler) to stepper frame 100.

24. Turn the setter off again.

25. Repeat steps 19-24 for each of your other nine MIDI pistons, i.e. using your second MIDI piston to recall stepper frame 101, adding the bass coupler, storing the registration back to stepper frame 101, using your third MIDI piston to recall stepper frame 102, adding the bass coupler, storing the registration back to stepper frame 102, etc.

26. Save another copy of the combination set (file) via 'Registration | Save combination set as ...' as a backup for good measure.

27. Finally, verify that your 10 MIDI pistons still recall the intended registrations (without the bass coupler) when the stepper's 'cued' frame number is set to 000, but that when the stepper's 'cued' frame number is set to 100 they recall the same registrations but with the bass coupler.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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psallo

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostFri Jun 18, 2021 10:23 pm

I'm very grateful to report that the above instructions worked, although in our case, the 000 generals have the bass coupler on, and the 100 generals have it turned off.

However, I discovered a "goober" during choir rehearsal tonight. If the stepper block is set to 100, so as to use the generals in which the bass coupler is turned off, and if any of generals 6 - 10 is engaged, and one then presses any of the Swell divisional pistons, all stops other than on the Swell are turned off. The behavior is as if the Swell divisionals somehow acquired the entirety of the organ in their scope. The other divisionals do not exhibit this behavior, at least not those for the manual divisions -- didn't think to try the Pedal divisionals.

Mercifully, this only happens when the stepper block is 100. If it is 000, the Swell divisionals behave normally.

Any idea of a cause, and / or how to correct this? I'm highly confident that when following the instructions above, I didn't click the Scope button when clicking the Setter button.

For what I am playing this weekend, I think I can temporarily work around this problem by hand registering in a couple of places.

Thanks for all your help!
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mdyde

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Re: Bass Coupler and Combinations

PostSat Jun 19, 2021 2:30 am

Hello psallo,

psallo wrote:However, I discovered a "goober" during choir rehearsal tonight. If the stepper block is set to 100, so as to use the generals in which the bass coupler is turned off, and if any of generals 6 - 10 is engaged, and one then presses any of the Swell divisional pistons, all stops other than on the Swell are turned off. The behavior is as if the Swell divisionals somehow acquired the entirety of the organ in their scope. The other divisionals do not exhibit this behavior, at least not those for the manual divisions -- didn't think to try the Pedal divisionals.

Mercifully, this only happens when the stepper block is 100. If it is 000, the Swell divisionals behave normally.


Presumably your Swell divisional MIDI pistons are (or are also) currently auto-detected to trigger some kind of general combination (and/or other unexpected function), or if you're using Hauptwerk's scoped combinations for them then you would need to set the scopes of those particular scoped combinations so that they only affect the desired Swell stops.

(Stepper combinations and general combinations cannot be scoped -- they are always general in scope.)

I'd suggest:

- Load the relevant organ.

- Set the cued stepper frame to 100, so as to match the conditions of your previous problem, then press your MIDI general piston number 10, so as to set the stepper current frame to 109.

- Right-click on each of the virtual pistons/functions in turn that you currently think you have those Swell divisional MIDI pistons auto-detected to, and select 'Clear all MIDI .. settings'.

- Turn on all stops (e.g. via the screen).

- Try pressing each of you Swell divisional MIDI pistons in turn to make sure that they are now doing nothing, i.e. that they no longer affect the states of any stops. Assuming so:

- Now auto-detect them again to the intended virtual pistons/functions. If auto-detecting them to Hauptwerk's master scoped combinations then make sure that you set the scopes appropriately for those scoped combinations. (The 'Registration menu: master scoped combinations' section in the Hauptwerk user guide -- pages 114-117 in the current v6.0.2 version -- covers how to use and scope those.)

Does that solve it? If not, are you using a MIDI digital/electronic organ from which to play Hauptwerk? (If so, then perhaps its internal combination system is affecting the stops' states, depending on how you have it all configured.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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