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Long delay unloading organ

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JulianMoney-Kyrle

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Long delay unloading organ

PostFri Jul 30, 2021 7:37 pm

I have noticed quite a long delay when switching between sample sets, and most of this seems to be the time taken for the current organ to unload. I read somewhere that the delay is Windows 10 being somehow reluctant to release the memory for the next sample set to use. Is there any workaround for this, or do I just have to be patient?

I have a new, fast PC with lots of RAM and an SSD. Loading a sample set is pretty quick, even something huge such as Groningen.
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mnailor

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostFri Jul 30, 2021 11:13 pm

Same here. Unloading a 40 - 50 GB sampleset always takes more than a minute. That's been the case since I went to Windows 10 about 2 years ago. Never noticed it on Windows 7.
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mdyde

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 3:24 am

Hello Julian/Mark,

A work-around was included in Hauptwerk v5.0.0 for it. Here's the relevant entry from the v5 changes section in the release notice:

PCs: organs should unload much faster on recent Windows 10 versions if Windows' page file is completely disabled (as a work-around to a performance bug relating to locked memory in recent Windows 10 updates, which Microsoft is aware of and aims to address properly in the longer-term).


This step in the the Hauptwerk installation instructions in the user guide covers how to disable the Windows page file (which I'd definitely recommend doing):

Step 2. (optional, for computer experts): Especially with recent Windows 10 versions, disabling Windows’ page file can allow organs to load faster, and unload much faster. However, doing so will prevent Windows and other applications from being able to use more (virtual) memory than your PC actually has RAM, so might adversely affect the performance of the computer when used for purpose other than Hauptwerk. Hence if your PC is used exclusively or mainly for Hauptwerk, or if you have plenty of RAM, you might wish to disable the Windows page file, for best Hauptwerk performance. To do so in Windows 10: go to Windows’ Settings via the Start menu, select System, select About, click System info, then click on the Performance | Settings button on the Advanced tab. Select Adjust for best performance, then click the Advanced tab. Click Virtual memory: Change and ensure that No paging file is selected (for each drive, if your PC has more than one), then click Set. Finally click OK on all of the windows and re-boot the computer if you changed any settings.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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engrssc

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 8:48 am

(Slight additional detail for latest Windows)

mdyde wrote: in Windows 10: go to Windows’ Settings via the Start menu, select System, select About,

Click Related Settings

Greyed out (5th down) Advanced system settings

System Properties:

Performance | Settings[/i] button on the [i]Advanced[/i] tab. Select [i]Adjust for best performance, then click the Advanced[/i] tab. Click [i]Virtual memory: Change and ensure that No paging file is selected (for each drive, if your PC has more than one), then click Set. Finally click OK on all of the windows and re-boot the computer if you changed any settings.


Rgds,
Ed
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mdyde

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 9:00 am

Thanks, Ed.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mnailor

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 9:21 am

Yes, my pagefile has been disabled since you made this recommendation. It didn't help.
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mdyde

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 9:39 am

Hello Mark,

I'm surprised it would take that long if the page file is disabled. It might be worth looking in the Hauptwerk log ('Help | View activity log') after launching Hauptwerk to check that it says 'OS tot. page file: 0' (if not, Windows still has a page file enabled on at least one drive).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mnailor

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 9:50 am

Yes, the activity log says total pagefile is 0. Thanks.
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mdyde

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 11:24 am

Thanks, Mark. In that case, for now we probably just have to hope Microsoft improve the performance for memory deallocation again.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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engrssc

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 11:40 am

mdyde wrote:In that case, for now we probably just have to hope Microsoft improve the performance for memory deallocation again.


An upcoming feature in Windows 25 :roll:

Rgds,
Ed
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mnailor

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 1:14 pm

Thanks, Martin. I'm used to the slow unload. Wasn't complaining -- I just didn't want Julian to waste a lot of time trying to solve it, since it's outside of our control. Assuming he has pagefiles disabled.
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JulianMoney-Kyrle

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostSun Aug 01, 2021 3:55 am

I can't remember whether or not I have disabled the page files. I have the computer connected to my home network, and therefore to the Internet, and I get regular Windows updates which restore many of my Hauptwerk-specific settings back to the Windows defaults (why does Microsoft always think they know better?). I also have an audio glitch to troubleshoot, but I haven't got round to it as I would rather spend my time playing.
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JulianMoney-Kyrle

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostThu Aug 05, 2021 6:17 pm

On checking my settings I found that there was one drive (a small drive that came with the computer and which so far I have neither used nor removed) which still had a paging file. After unchecking it to match the other drives, sample sets are noticeably faster to unloaded, taking 10 - 15 seconds rather than a minute or two.

Thank-you for pointing me in the right direction.
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mdyde

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostFri Aug 06, 2021 3:12 am

Thanks, Julian.

Excellent. You're very welcome.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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engrssc

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Re: Long delay unloading organ

PostFri Aug 06, 2021 11:21 am

JulianMoney-Kyrle wrote:On checking my settings I found that there was one drive (a small drive that came with the computer and which so far I have neither used nor removed) which still had a paging file. After unchecking it to match the other drives, sample sets are noticeably faster to unloaded, taking 10 - 15 seconds rather than a minute or two.


That is an interesting observation. Thanks for sharing.

Rgds,
Ed

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