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Same soundcard, different sounds

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münsterorganist

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Same soundcard, different sounds

PostWed Nov 03, 2021 2:57 pm

Dear Martin,
it is possible, that same samples sound very different with two identical PC's and the same sound cards? What can be the cause? Thanks very much.
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mdyde

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Re: Same soundcard, different sounds

PostWed Nov 03, 2021 3:17 pm

Hello münsterorganist,

[Topic moved here.]

You settings (such as voicing, and/or audio engine options, and/or or rank memory options, and/or audio routing, and/or convolution reverb settings) can certainly affect how any given sample set will sound. Hence if you have different settings between the two PCs then they could potentially sound different. You could use Hauptwerk's backup/restore mechanism to copy your settings from one PC to the other -- see the 'Backing up and restoring your settings and data: Moving your settings to a new/different computer ...' section in the Hauptwerk user guide for how to do that (starting on page 32 in the current v6.0.2 version).

Also, if the CPU cores of either of were PCs are overloaded, it could affect the resolution at which Hauptwerk's background models (especially the wind supply model) will be processed, which could affect the sound of pipes (e.g. brightness and tuning) to some extent.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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münsterorganist

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Re: Same soundcard, different sounds

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 3:39 am

Dear Martin,
thank you for answer. The only difference is, that I have a multi-channel system at home,wich is mixed to stereo on the RME card for headphone. The other PC only used the stereo channel. Does this ultimately make the difference? Thank for help.
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mnailor

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Re: Same soundcard, different sounds

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 4:13 am

If your sampleset is surround, and one system mixes in rear (or other perspective) ranks but the other doesn't, you're not playing the same samples and it shouldn't sound the same. Is that the situation?

Are you using the same model of headphones on both?

Also, if you haven't actually copied the user settings and then carefully *only* changed the audio routing between multichannel and single channel, it would be very difficult to know whether all your other settings are really the same.
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münsterorganist

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Re: Same soundcard, different sounds

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 5:34 am

Also thanks for help. The sample is Caen Surround. At home I mix 8 channels for headphone in Stereo down. In the others PC I superimpose the front and rear, mix them amount using the SP intern sample mixer and give them to headphone output. Here the sound is without"pressure" und completely different in sound. I don't need any reverberation. I use AKG 701 for both.and take the headphone output in the RME card. Thanks.
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mdyde

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Re: Same soundcard, different sounds

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 7:48 am

Hello münsterorganist,

I don't have first-hand experience with the the Caen Surround sample set, but based on a quick look at Sonus Paradisi's website, if I understand correctly, it appears to have only two perspectives ('front' stereo, and 'rear' stereo)?:

https://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/organs/ ... ienne.html

Assuming that's the case:

münsterorganist wrote:At home I mix 8 channels for headphone in Stereo down.


...could you clarify what you're referring to by 8 channels, if the sample set has only front-stereo and rear-stereo? For example, do you mean that at home you route some 'front' ranks to one pair of speakers, some other 'front' ranks to a second pair of speakers, and the remaining 'front' ranks to a third pair of speakers, and all of the 'rear' ranks to a fourth pair of speakers?

If so, do you mean that you then mix all four pairs of speakers down to a single stereo output in RME's mixer (with no effects or EQ, etc., applied in that mixer)?

(If you were using different perspectives on your two PCs, or mixing them together in different ratios, then that would of course result in the organ sounding differently on them.)

Also, to confirm, do you mean that all of your voicing settings are identical on both PCs (e.g. at their defaults, or having copied all settings from one PC to the other via Hauptwerk's backup/restore mechanism), and, likewise, that your audio engine preferences and rank memory options are identical on both PCs?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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münsterorganist

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Re: Same soundcard, different sounds

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 11:27 am

Dear Martin,
I usually set samples myself up from the organist's point of view:
Channel 1/2( perspective 1) GO
Channel 3/4(perspective 2) BW
Channel 5/6 (perspective 3) RP
Channel 7/8 (perspective 4) Rear
The speakers are grouped around me.
With the new mixer I can mix the organworks into one another at will
und distribute the rear portion. I hope, you understand,what I have done.
But this should be irrelevant for the headphone mixdown for stereo, since all channels are combined on a stereo pair. Or is this the difference with stereo only?
(With speakers - like this distribution - sounds this terrific in my large living room).
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mdyde

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Re: Same soundcard, different sounds

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 12:39 pm

Thanks, münsterorganist.

In that case, assuming also that:

1. All ranks are voiced identically (e.g. all defaults) on both PCs, and:
2. All ranks' audio memory options are set identically (e.g. all defaults) on both PCs, and:
3. Audio engine preferences are set are identically (e.g. all defaults) on both PCs, and:
4. On your home PC you aren't mixing any perspectives together within the Caen's built-in perspective mixer, and:
5. On your home PC, in Hauptwerk's audio mixer, the primary bus levels are identical (e.g. having 'Bus audio processing: level adjust dB=0') for all four of your perspectives' primary buses, and all that all of those primary buses have 'master mix bus 1' enabled as a send, with its send 'Level adjust dB' set the same (e.g. =0), and:
6. On your home PC you don't have any audio device channels selected for master mix bus 1, and:
7. On your home PC you aren't making any level adjustments in RME's mixer, or doing any mixing in it, or applying any EQ/effects in it, and:
8. On your other PC you have the Caen's built-in perspective mixer set to mix the 'front' and 'rear' equally

... then yes -- I would expect the mixed-down stereo results to sound essentially identical on both PCs.

I'd suggest carefully checking each of points 1-8 above. E.g. draw just one stop on both systems, then check that the voicing settings for both of of that stop's virtual ranks (front and rear) are identical between the two both PCs, then do likewise for the rank memory options for that stop's two virtual ranks, and so on.

Also, on each of the two PCs, try using Hauptwerk's built-in audio recorder to make a test recording (from master mix bus 1, which has recording enabled by default) with just that one stop drawn, then compare the two PCs' recordings. If the two recordings sound essentially the same then you would know that difference must be due to something outside of Hauptwerk (e.g. some setting in RME's mixer).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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münsterorganist

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Re: Same soundcard, different sounds

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 3:25 pm

Dear Martin,
many thanks for help. I want try all of this over the weekend. This is exactly what I wanted to known. I'm trying to find the bug. Thank you for the time being.
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mdyde

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Re: Same soundcard, different sounds

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 3:44 pm

Thanks. You're very welcome. Hope that helps to track it down.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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