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Mac mini M1 - No audio

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hschoof

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Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostWed Nov 17, 2021 11:15 pm

Good morning all
I have a Mac Mini M1 on loan to try before I buy.
Everything installed just fine and I loaded up the St Anne's, the Bovenkerk as well as the Schiedam organs.
I restored Hauptwerk from a backup of the old Mac Pro to ensure the setup was identical and everything opens up and works fine.
The only issue is that the Bovenkerk is the only organ I can get any audio from while the St Anne's and Schiedam do nothing. With the St Anne's and Schiedam the midi from the keyboards works but there is no audio if I play from the physical keyboards or the onscreen keyboards. And yes the motor on the Schiedam is switched on.
Any ideas?

Kind regards
Hans
Hans Schoof
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mdyde

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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostThu Nov 18, 2021 4:34 am

Hello Hans,

We don't officially support Apple-CPU Macs yet, but I think the problem would be unlikely to be due to the different architecture.

Strangely, in recent macOS versions, if the RAM is overfilled, macOS' audio system stops working, which might require restarting the computer before it will work again.

Please try:

- Reboot and log in.

- Launch Hauptwerk.

- Without loading any other (e.g. larger) organs first, load St. Anne's (since that's a small organ, and so should easily fit within the 16 GB of RAM that M1 Macs have).

- Draw plenty of stops and click on some virtual keys.

Do you then have audio?

If not, do you see audio signal activity on the audio level meter on Hauptwerk's 'Audio, MIDI and Performance' large control panel? What audio output device do you have selected on the 'General settings | Audio device and channels' screen?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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hschoof

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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostSun Nov 21, 2021 10:06 pm

Hello Martin
Thank you for your response.
I went back and connected it all up again with the same result as before. The Bovenkerk is the only one where I get audio.
With the others the midi keyboards do work but there is no audio. I have the Fireface 800 selected in my general preferences.
I checked the audio levels you requested and there is no movement on the audio or the CPU level meters except on the Bovenkerk organ.
I can restart and open up the St Annes first but it makes no difference.
Another thing I noticed is that if I shut down the computer from within Hauptwerk, then upon restarting, Hauptwerk appears to be loaded in the dock but is actually hung up and I need to Force Quit before being able to start it up properly.
Will the new version VII mentioned in someone else's post be a native M1 version?
Hans Schoof
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mdyde

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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostMon Nov 22, 2021 5:14 am

Thanks, Hans.

I think it's unlikely that the problem you're having is due to the CPU architecture, especially since you're only having the problem with certain organs.

Please try:

- Exit Hauptwerk.

- Make sure that you haven't set macOS to launch Hauptwerk automatically when it boots.

- Make sure that all available macOS updates are applied.

- Also, for good measure, make sure that you have the latest version of iLok License Manager installed. You could either use 'Help | Check for Application Updates' within iLok License Manager, or simply download and re-instal the latest version from: https://ilok.com/

- Reboot the Mac again, log in, and wait 60 seconds or so, to make sure everything has had ample time to finish booting.

- Launch Hauptwerk via one of the other 'Hauptwerk (alt config N)' configurations. (Pick one that you don't normally use, so that you won't lose anything valuable by resetting its settings.)

- Use 'File | Revert all settings to factory defaults' within that configuration, OK, then exit, then re-launch that same configuration.

- Select the Mac's built-in output as the audio device when prompted (leaving the default of 48 kHz selected as the sample rate), and make sure that no MIDI ports at all are ticked when when prompted to select MIDI ports. Leave all other settings at their defaults.

- Load St. Anne's, leaving all rank options at their defaults when prompted.

- On the 'Audio, MIDI and Performance' large control panel, set the 'Audio: Trim dB' to 0 (so that any signal activity will be easily visible on the signal level meter).

- Use the mouse to turn on all of the virtual stops on the Great, then click on some virtual Great keys.

Do you then hear audio through (through the Mac's built-in output/speakers)? If not, do you see any signal activity on the 'Audio, MIDI and Performance' large control panel's audio signal level meter when clicking on the keys?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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hschoof

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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostMon Nov 22, 2021 6:55 am

Thanks for that Martin
I'll try that tomorrow morning. It's just odd that one organ works fine and the others don't. I must say that has me a bit confused.
I'll let you know how I get on.

Kind regards
Hans Schoof
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mdyde

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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostMon Nov 22, 2021 6:59 am

Thanks, Hans.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostMon Nov 22, 2021 10:25 pm

Good morning Martin
I tried all the things you suggested and at one stage did get everything to work through headphones, but it was intermittent.
The only way I got the Schiedam organ to work was by loading it in the most basic form, 16 bit single releases, mono and truncated to the max. that way I had about 7Gb free memory and it worked. Because of the intermittent problem I'm wondering whether the computer I have on loan may have an issue. I'll see if I can get another one in order to eliminate that, but it could be some time before that happens. I'll let you know when I have another go.

Thank you very much for you assistance.

Kind regards
Hans Schoof
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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostTue Nov 23, 2021 4:36 am

Thanks, Hans.

If the problem was still occurring intermittently even with St. Anne's in the 'alt config' with all-default settings (in my test above) using the Mac's built-in output, then that might perhaps suggest some part of the macOS installation is corrupted. If the person who lent the computer to you doesn't mind, you could conceivably try re-installing macOS completely from clean (wiping/re-formatting the drive completely in the process), and avoiding importing any Mac settings/accounts/applications during the process, so that there are no vestiges of any previous macOS installations/data on it. If you do that, also avoid installing any other applications or drivers except for Hauptwerk and iLok License Manager initially, just so that you can test it on the system in as clean a state as possible.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostTue Nov 23, 2021 4:50 am

Thank you Martin.The problem did occur with the St Annes as well, so I'll ask them if I can wipe the drive completely and start again. It was a brand new unused unit - until I used it. But I'll see what they say.
Thanks again for you assistance
Best regards
Hans Schoof
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mdyde

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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostTue Nov 23, 2021 5:24 am

Thanks, Hans.

You could perhaps also try testing the Mac's memory and drive for errors via Apple's diagnostic utilities.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostWed Dec 01, 2021 2:45 am

Good morning Martin
I think I have worked out what the problem is. In the Mac Pro I currently use I have about 300Mb free the the Schiedam organ is loaded. On the M1 MacMini I had 2Gb free with the same organ and it didn't work.
I loaded up several organs using around the same amount of Ram and they all worked upon the very first load immediately after installation and then once I loaded up another organ even if it was very small, the larger one would not load again.

When reloading the organs so that there is at least 3Gb of memory free, the problem is resolved and everything works fine. I guess that with the unified memory the computer must use a bit more than originally thought.

Trying to sort this out and reloading the organs in various ways to try and get it down to using a smaller amount of memory has highlighted something which I wonder if it could be addressed.
When an organ is initially loaded and you decided which ranks you want loaded. Is it possibly to have those ranks automatically selected so that you only need to change the release times or change from 24 to 20 or 16 bit without having to deselect every rank, middle, rear and tremulant variation? Could they be shown in divisions and sorted according to front, middle rear etc? If you think it is feasible I can fill in a suggestion form.

Regards
Hans Schoof
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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostWed Dec 01, 2021 3:38 am

From an earlier post:
"For the new MAC devices, System on a Chip, the memory is shared between the cpu cores, the other processors(the neutral processor for example) and the GPUs. The are all on one chip. This increases performance but the memory can’t be upgraded, the maximum you can have is the amount you initially purchase. Some of the memory will be used for the various processors, this will reduce the memory available for Hauptwerk. I don’t know how much this reduction will be but if I were purchasing one of the new MACs I would want to know this.

Because HW essentially runs using real memory (to avoid delays from virtual memory paging, which could cause audio glitches), the amount of physical memory available for applications when the all various processors are running will be the maximum available for sample sets. This could be a significant amount of memory. For applications which use can work with paging this is unlikely to be an issue. I suspect this memory usage will vary (be dynamic) however for HW ideally you need to know the maximum amount which they will use when running (HW)."


Knowing the maximum memory used by these other processors is likely to be rather important - silence is the worst sort of glitch.

Iain
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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostWed Dec 01, 2021 3:46 am

Thank you for your reply Iain
This did have me rather baffled as I didn't think the Mac mini would need around 3Gb to just run. I think that is probably OK for most applications but certainly not for Hauptwerk.
I also noticed that the monitor kept switching on and off when a larger organ was loaded, but not with a smaller one. That is what made me try and load various organs at 16Gb and truncated releases.
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Re: Mac mini M1 - No audio

PostWed Dec 01, 2021 5:16 am

Hello Hans,

Thanks for the update, and glad to hear you've managed to track the problem down.

hschoof wrote:Trying to sort this out and reloading the organs in various ways to try and get it down to using a smaller amount of memory has highlighted something which I wonder if it could be addressed.
When an organ is initially loaded and you decided which ranks you want loaded. Is it possibly to have those ranks automatically selected so that you only need to change the release times or change from 24 to 20 or 16 bit without having to deselect every rank, middle, rear and tremulant variation? Could they be shown in divisions and sorted according to front, middle rear etc? If you think it is feasible I can fill in a suggestion form.


Thanks very much for the suggestion. Yes -- we do have quite a few enhancement requests logged along those lines, so I've added your notes to one of them. (No need to fill in the form now -- I've written it up in the enhancement request logs.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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