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specific auto-detect problem

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mdyde

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Re: specific auto-detect problem

PostFri Apr 15, 2022 5:00 am

Thanks, Tom.

Thob3769 wrote:Let me give you one example of what I do not understand: on 4/09 you had me check one piston to see if only one numbered green led flashes which it did. If so, you said that my JOH is successfully sending Midi messages. Yet on 4/11 you described a procedure that said to make sure all JOH midi stops were off. That seem puzzling to me since I already knew that if the midi stop is off, no led lights would flash indicating no message had been sent. And when I looked at the diagnostic file I could tell that my 10 second intervals of pressing all thumb pistons sequentially were not all recorded. So was that because none of the midi stops were on?

A larger question is why is this problem seemingly caused by updating to Version VII? Although with Version VI there were a few registration glitches now and then, I was always able to auto-detect as desired. What do you think the explanation for this is?


It would make no difference whether you use v4 or v7 -- there are no relevant differences between the two versions, and fundamentally the problem is that currently your Johannus isn't actually sending MIDI messages from its pistons at all, so nothing within the computer could ever respond to them. Instead the Johannus is just sending messages if/when Johannus' stops change state. E.g. if the registration stored within the Johannus' combination system for one of the Johannus pistons happens to turn a particular Johannus stop on (or off) then the Johannus will send a state-change MIDI message from that stop. So whether any MIDI message(s) at all get sent to the computer (and what the MIDI messages are) depends solely on what registration you happen to have drawn on the Johannus prior to pressing the piston, and also on what Johannus registration you happen to have drawn.

You could perhaps try contacting Johannus themselves for support to ask them whether there is any way that you could get your Opus 30 to send MIDI messages directly from its pistons (instead of its stops). E.g. perhaps there is some setting within the digital organ to enable it (but I think that's unlikely, since its user manual doesn't mention anything about that, and the user manual's MIDI implementation section doesn't list its pistons as sending MIDI messages). Or perhaps they might be able to supply and/or fit some upgrade circuit board or firmware that makes its pistons send MIDI messages. I recall that some later Johannus models do/did have the ability to send MIDI messages from their pistons, so maybe yours could be upgraded internally.

Failing that, as I mentioned, as a crude work-around, you could conceivably come up with a procedure whereby, within a particular Johannus combination memory bank, you programme exactly one Johannus stop to one Johannus piston, then exactly one different Johannus stop to the next Johannus piston, then exactly one different piston to the third Johannus piston, and so on, then, starting from an all-off Johannus registration each time, auto-detect the pistons to Hauptwerk's pistons. If you had it partly working previously (e.g. in v4) then presumably that's what your son-in-law had set up for you, and that would work equally in v7 [no relevant differences in Hauptwerk between the two versions].

However, it would never really be satisfactory, as a I mentioned, because:

a) You wouldn't be able to press any given Johannus piston more than once in a row (so it could never work as a stepper-advance piston, for example), and:

b) When pressing a Johannus piston after having pressed a different Johannus piston, the previous Johannus piston's programmed stop would turn off (indirectly triggering the Hauptwerk function/piston again that you'd auto-detected to it, given that Johannus organs send the same MIDI program change message again when any given stop turns off that they did when it turned on). That might, or might not, cause a problem depending on whether the Johannus always sends any applicable stop-off messages before it sends stop-on messages when the Johannus triggers one of its internal combinations.

c) You would need to avoid subsequently storing any other registrations to the relevant Johannus memory bank, i.e. you would need to keep that Johannus memory bank set up appropriately for use with Hauptwerk.

d) You would need to make sure that all Johannus stops were off prior to using Hauptwerk, and that the relevant Johannus combination memory bank was selected, and then avoid touching the Johannus stops whilst using Hauptwerk (otherwise you would potentially unintentionally trigger Hauptwerk functions, given that you would effectively have auto-detected its stop-on/off messages to the Hauptwerk functions/pistons.

If you do want to try setting it up in that way I'll have to leave it to you to experiment with, I'm afraid. I would recommend either:

1. (Ideal) contact Johannus to see whether they can help you to get your Opus 30 to send MIDI messages directly from its pistons (e.g. via some internal Johannus settings or firmware/hardware upgrade). Or:

2.. Conceivably some other Hauptwerk user who has a Johannus Opus will see this topic and know of some to get an Opus to send MIDI messages directly from its pistons. (However, I think it probably can't be done without a firmware/hardware upgrade, based on what the Opus' user manual says.) Or:

3. Buy a second-hand "Novation Launchpad Mk2", e.g. on eBay. They are very easy to set up and use with Hauptwerk, and we could help you with how to set it up if needed. N.B. the 'Mk2' model is no longer available from Novation, and Hauptwerk doesn't yet have full native support for its successor, so you would probably need to find a second-hand one. It's specifically the 'Mk2' version you need. Or:

4. See whether your son-in-law can help you set the Johannus up as he did before (presumably using the work-around I suggested). The caveat is that it could never be really satisfactory if set up that way, for the reasons above. Or:

5. If needed, you could perhaps consider employing Francois on a one-to-one consultancy basis ( http://www.hauptwerkconsultant.com/contact-us.html ) to help you set your Johannus using the work-around I suggested. Again the caveat is that it could never be really satisfactory if set up that way, for the reasons above.

[Edit: P.S. I see that Iain and I replied at the same time.

P.P.S. In case you need it, I found a copy of the Opus 5/10/20/30 user manual here: https://all-guidesbox.com/manual/118950 ... al-45.html .]
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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mdyde

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Re: specific auto-detect problem

PostFri Apr 15, 2022 5:49 am

P.S. Stop press! Upon further reading of the Opus 5/10/20/30 user manual ( https://all-guidesbox.com/manual/118950 ... al-45.html ), it appears that the Opus models may actually have a means to be set up so that you can programme different MIDI program changes (=patch numbers) to different Johannus pistons, with the Johannus sending those MIDI program changes from its "MIDI" stops (e.g. "MIDI Swell 2") via its MIDI MOD port (not MIDI SEQ) according to which Johannus piston is pressed.

See the "Program MIDI into capture system" section in its user manual (pages 22-24) for full details.

Perhaps that's how your son-in-law already set the Johannus up for you, in which maybe all you need to do is to connect the MIDI cable from the MIDI MOD port (not MIDI SEQ), make sure that the relevant Johannus memory bank is selected, and make sure that the Johannus' "MIDI" stops are turned on.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: specific auto-detect problem

PostFri Apr 15, 2022 7:24 am

Thank you, Iain. It appears that the LaunchPad is my best next step. I have seen one used and am aware of the downside of it. I would need specific directions on how to setup a LP to my Johannus. As of right now, I am awaiting a reply from Martin to my last post - he has been extremely helpful in assisting me.

Take care,

Tom
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mdyde

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Re: specific auto-detect problem

PostFri Apr 15, 2022 7:33 am

Hello Tom,

Thob3769 wrote:As of right now, I am awaiting a reply from Martin to my last post - he has been extremely helpful in assisting me.


I did reply -- see my two replies above in this topic. (They're on page 2 of the topic.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Thob3769

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Re: specific auto-detect problem

PostTue Apr 19, 2022 7:48 pm

Hello Martin,

Thanks so much for your detailed responses from 4/15 - I did not discover both of them initially as I had assumed an unending scroll down on what I now see is page one of 2 of out of all the postings from my initial concern.

I appreciate greatly knowing that this issue all stems with my Johannus and not an upgraded HW version. At some point I may well reach out to JOH for a possible solution but for now, the LP Mk2 will potentially be a reasonable & immediate solution.

In response to your “PS Stop press” - I had already tried switching to the Midi Mod port and unfortunately can report the same limitation of one press only.

Anyhow, my LP M2k is in the process of being shipped here. I have spent over an hour poking around on this forum trying in vain to find a simple listing of how to actually install this LP on my system. I also downloaded the LP M2k programmer’s reference manual and the Getting started guide. The programmer’s reference manual might as well been written in Greek and the GSG says to register the product then download the software. BUT I did read on our forum that there is no need to download the LP software.

After connecting the LP to my Mac, what are the next steps? I wondered about going to organ settings/Midi/key triggers for this organ only/input then change the default “no input” to Nov Launchpad Midi note-on/off button…but this setting would be for “stepper :trigger +1” only so would I want & need to repeat for at least some of the other steppers listed. Note that using the stepper system will be my immediate priority. Perhaps later I might want to use LP for HW generals. Finally something also I read on our forum suggested I might need to change the Primary Output setting if that same Midi/Key Triggers…

Bottom line is I need a lot of step by step help here and hope you can either point me to exactly what I need or provide it within a reply to me. I can not thank you enough in advance!

Tom
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mdyde

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Re: specific auto-detect problem

PostWed Apr 20, 2022 4:11 am

Thanks, Tom.

You don't need to install any of the bundled software that comes with a Novation Launchpad (Ableton, etc.). If using a PC (Windows) the "Novation USB Driver" may possibly need to be installed ( https://downloads.novationmusic.com/nov ... nchpad-mk2 ), but it doesn't appear that Novation provide a driver for the Mac, so probably none is needed on the Mac platform.

To set up your Novation Launchpad, please try:

- When Hauptwerk isn't running, connect your Launchpad (Mk2) to your Mac via a USB cable. Its internal LEDs should light up in a pattern briefly as it 'boots'.

- Launch Hauptwerk. Hauptwerk should tell you that a new MIDI device has been found (your Launchpad), and ask you whether you want to enable it. Respond in the affirmative.

- Hauptwerk will then show you the "General settings | MIDI ports" screen. Make sure that the column with the word 'Launchpad' in it is ticked in one of the "Console MIDI IN ..." rows on the screen's "MIDI IN ports" tab and also in one of the "Console MIDI OUT ..." rows on the screen's "MIDI OUT ports" tab. OK the screen.

- Load the St. Anne's organ (for example).

- Right-click on a control panel button which you wish to control from the Launchpad button (e.g. the "Gen can" button). For good measure, select "Clear all (for all organs ... and also for this organ)".

- Now right-click on the same control panel button again, and select "Auto-detect (for all organs ...)". Follow the on-screen prompt to press the desired Launchpad button, and select the desired colour for its internal LED, then click the 'Done' button. You should then find that when you press that Launchpad button it triggers that Hauptwerk function, and that its internal LED lights up when (and only) when the corresponding Hauptwerk button is lit.

- Repeat for any other functions/buttons as desired.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Thob3769

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Re: specific auto-detect problem

PostMon Apr 25, 2022 7:59 pm

Thanks a million, Martin! My Launchpad was easy to setup because of your step-by-step directions. I can confirm that there was no need to download a LP driver on my Mac. The only adjustment I made was to switch to the "full power" mode as described in the Getting Started Guide so that the LEDs are brighter than in the default "low power" mode. The LP works wonderfully and happily sits securely on my console just off the choir manual - no need for a stand and easily reached. I can not begin to thank you adequately for all your assistance.

Take care,
Tom
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mdyde

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Re: specific auto-detect problem

PostTue Apr 26, 2022 3:30 am

Thank you very much, Tom. You're very welcome. Glad to hear it does the job nicely for you.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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