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a lack of screen reader accessibility, even in version 7

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va3ets

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a lack of screen reader accessibility, even in version 7

PostSun Jun 12, 2022 7:03 pm

Hi all, I've been using Hauptwerk since version 4, and I use a screen reader, VoiceOver on Mac OS. The lack of accessibility to Hauptwerk with a screen reader, is still the case even to this day. So as a result, I require sighted assistance to do pretty much anything within the Hauptwerk interface, such as configure organs, voicing, and even selecting an organ's controls, IE keyboards, pedals etc to auto detect them when setting up an organ. The one and only thing that will read with VOiceOver is the menu bar, and options within those menus on the menu bar. Otherwise, it's as if there were no Windows open at all, nothing else is visible to VOiceOver. When I try and navigate with VOiceOver in any Hauptwerk window, all I get is a ding, as if there weren't any windows open at all. This has been the case in Version 4.2 which I started out with in 2017, even up to the current version 7. There have been no improvements whatsoever, in the area of screen reader accessibility throughout versions 4, 5, 6, and now 7. I can use the iLok Licence manager just fine, and it is written with the QT framework as well, so I don't see why there couldn't be accessibility put into Hauptwerk. tHat'd open up a whole other user base, that being people with vision impairments using screen reading software to Hauptwerk, if it were to be more accessible than it is at the moment. A serious look at this area would be greatly appreciated. I'd even be willing to beta test, and get on a beta team, to ensure that if implemented, accessibility will be as good as it can be. The ability to use this software, for a screen reader user like I am here, should be on an equal level with that of a sighted user using a mouse. Or as good as it can possibly be if not totally equal. Even in the load organ dialog nothing at all will read. Once I've had assistance to select an organ, I can load it fine on my own with Voiceover, by going under load recent organ, and selecting it from there. THat's because that is in the menu bar, and all those selections are in there, which VOiceOver will read. I don't know how the situation on Windows is, with Hauptwerk, and screen readers such as NVDA, JAWS, and Narrator. it's probably much the same. I attempted to post in the suggestions and enhancements section of the forum, but apparently I cannot post there. So posting here, under technical support. Thanks. Dan.
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mdyde

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Re: a lack of screen reader accessibility, even in version 7

PostMon Jun 13, 2022 4:16 am

Hello Dan,

Thanks very much for the feedback on v5/v6/v6 compatibility with macOS VoiceOver, and sorry to hear that the newer version of Qt that's used in those versions (compared to v4) hasn't helped. I'm not sure why it isn't working at least with settings screens, file browsers, and control panels, since they (and their controls) are based on standard Qt widgets (and use keyboard-based navigation and text for labels and tool-tips in the standard way that Qt recommend) for which my understanding is that Qt should provide the relevant information to screen reader software.

I've added your notes to the existing enhancement request that relates to improving screen reader support (which has all of your previous notes on the subject, as well as those from other users with visual impairments). Actually, aside from yourself, the other two people who've reported difficulties with screen reader support were both also using Macs, so it's conceivable that it might work better on Windows, or perhaps it's just coincidence that all three of you happen to be Mac users. (Hauptwerk v5-v7 uses Qt 5.11 and has its accessibility support enabled. I understand that Qt 5.11+ had an improved accessibility back-end on Windows: https://resources.qt.io/development-top ... on-windows .)

I can't make any promises about specifically when we'd be able to work on improving it, but we're all aware that it would be highly desirable.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: a lack of screen reader accessibility, even in version 7

PostMon Jun 13, 2022 2:23 pm

Hi Martin, just as a thought on my end, thinking this might make a difference, I tried in the Mac OS, going under system preferences, security and privacy, the privacy tab, and under accessibility, I tried adding Hauptwerk in there, but it wouldn't let me add the main app, which is what I use. For some reason, the alt config 1, was the one that got added instead. Not sure if adding Hauptwerk in there, if I could get it added would help my situation or not. Just a thought from my end. Thanks, Dan
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mdyde

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Re: a lack of screen reader accessibility, even in version 7

PostMon Jun 13, 2022 3:25 pm

Thanks, Dan.

I just had a quick look on macOS, and if I understand correctly, I don't think you actually need to add an application within macOS settings' "Security & Privacy | Accessibility" tab in order for VoiceOver to be able to read it; I think you would only need to add it there if it was itself a screen reader application, so as to give it permission to read text on the screen from other applications.

I tried using VoiceOver with Hauptwerk v7, and I had the same results that you did, whereby it will read Hauptwerk's menus, but nothing else.

I then tried Windows 10's built-in screen reader ('Narrator'), and that does appear to work much better with most of Hauptwerk v7 (except for the graphical console), in that it can successfully read:

- Menus.
- File browsers, such as the browsers for selecting organs and combination sets to load.
- Settings screens and their controls.
- Control panels and their controls.
- Piston toolbars and their controls.

Hence it does appear to be some kind of platform compatibility issue between Qt 5.11 on macOS [or at least with the way that we compile it, which has accessibility enabled, and is linked 'statically', which should result in all the necessary libraries being linked into the Hauptwerk executable itself] and macOS VoiceOver. I've added these additional notes to the enhancement request log concerning screen reader support. Hopefully when we next move to a newer Qt version that might resolve it on the Mac platform.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: a lack of screen reader accessibility, even in version 7

PostMon Jun 13, 2022 5:15 pm

Hi Martin, wow, that's very interesting. Sounds like a lot of stuff will read in Hauptwerk under Windows, and just its built in screen reader, Narrator. I've used other QT apps before on the Mac that read stuff in their interfaces fine, and not just their menus like in the case of Hauptwerk(iLok Licence manager is one of them,) which i believe is also written using QT. So it is doable. for sure. is there a way I can check and see what version of QT those apps are using? Would it say in their about dialogues possibly? Would be interesting to see what version they're using compared to Hauptwerk.
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Re: a lack of screen reader accessibility, even in version 7

PostTue Jun 14, 2022 3:44 am

Hello Dan,

I've just had a quick look, and it appears that on macOS the latest version of iLok License Manager uses Qt 5.12, compiled/linked as 'frameworks' (not 'statically'). Sometimes there are bugs in Qt relating to linking statically (since 'frameworks' is Qt's default method, and thus the one that they test the most), but we do need to use static linking for Hauptwerk. If that's the problem in this case (which would be my first guess, given that you mention that iLok License Manager is readable by VoiceOver) then hopefully a later Qt version will fix that.

For now, if you have an Intel Mac then you could potentially instead run Hauptwerk on Windows, via Apple's Boot Camp. Or if you also have a PC then you could try using that for Hauptwerk.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: a lack of screen reader accessibility, even in version 7

PostTue Jun 14, 2022 10:53 am

OH ok, interesting. Is this something that you could reach out to the developers of Qt about, and provide feedback to them about? So they can look at it? I definitely think you should do that, as that'll go a long way to getting Hauptwerk more accessible
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Re: a lack of screen reader accessibility, even in version 7

PostTue Jun 14, 2022 12:14 pm

Thanks, Dan.

The next time that we move to a newer Qt version (which wouldn't be for a v7 patch, I'm afraid), and if that doesn't resolve it, then we'll aim to do contact them about it.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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