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Multi channel balance/volume settings changing unexpectedly

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ajt

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Multi channel balance/volume settings changing unexpectedly

PostThu Sep 08, 2022 11:56 am

Hi,

I’m trying to sort out an installation of Hereford in a large building. Currently on HW 6 for annoying reasons, but will go to VII when their new Mac arrives.

I am currently routing each division to its own amplifier/audio channels.

I got it all setup, everything nicely balanced, and sounding spectacular. I backed up at this point.

Loaded a different organ. All good. Went back to Hereford, suddenly everything is significantly louder - I had to turn it down from -10db to -17db to make it stop distorting - and the voicing is completely shot. The inter-divisional balance is all over the place, some individual notes that I had to adjust in volume are no longer needing that adjustment etc etc.

This happened before, but I put it down to someone fiddling, but now I’m certain it’s Hauptwerk losing the plot somehow.

I tried restoring my backup, no difference.

I appreciate this is v6 so may not be an issue in 7, but if anyone has any ideas it would be much appreciated.
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mnailor

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Re: Multi channel balance/volume settings changing unexpecte

PostThu Sep 08, 2022 12:13 pm

This is probably off-base, but I have some powered monitors where you can't disable their auto on/off. I've spent hours adjusting levels only to realize later that a few speakers weren't turning on. Then when they get enough signal to wake up, my levels are suddenly wrong.

Have you written down your HW level settings to verify them after a reload? If the same, it seems to be external.

Another place to look is if your audio interface trim settings are the same on restart.

And take a picture of gain knobs to compare later in case there's been fiddling. Gotta keep those violinists away from our settings!
Last edited by mnailor on Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ajt

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Re: Multi channel balance/volume settings changing unexpecte

PostThu Sep 08, 2022 12:17 pm

Thanks, sadly it’s definitely not that. Passive speakers (Allen ones) and amps that are definitely all on. It changed when switching organs, nothing else had changed.
Adrian
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larason2

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Re: Multi channel balance/volume settings changing unexpecte

PostThu Sep 08, 2022 12:25 pm

It could somehow be Hauptwerk's fault, but I think that is unlikely. Still, it makes sense to upgrade to Hauptwerk VII before doing all the voicing. What amplifiers/Allen monitors are you using? Are you using a power conditioner to hook it all up? How reliable is the AC source in the church? What interface are you using between Hauptwerk and the amplifiers? I think the answer is more likely to be found there. Amplifiers behave funny when their power source is unreliable, and AC power is a lot more variable than it seems.

I also agree that external fiddling is a likely cause - You'd be surprised what happens at another service when you're not there!
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mdyde

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Re: Multi channel balance/volume settings changing unexpecte

PostThu Sep 08, 2022 3:09 pm

Hello Adrian,

Please first check that the installation is using Hauptwerk v6.0.2, since that had several important bug-fixes in it above v6.0.0/1. As long as you're using that version then I can basically promise you that the problem isn't due to any bug in Hauptwerk.

The amplitude, sound, and voicing of Hauptwerk's audio output is determined entirely by your Hauptwerk settings, and the *only* situation in which Hauptwerk will ever change any settings automatically is if the relevant settings file is corrupted when Hauptwerk tries to load it (e.g. due to the computer not shutting down cleanly, or due to a memory fault, or drive corruption). In that specific circumstance it will try to revert the corrupted settings file to the last-known-good backup of the file (which it makes and keeps automatically specifically for the purpose), and if that fails too then it will revert the settings file entirely to defaults. In either of those case it will log a warning in the Hauptwerk activity log accordingly, so please try searching the the log ("Help | View activity log") for the word "restore", which should find them. Also check through the log for any other warnings or errors that were logged between the the time that it was working properly and when the problem occurred.

Very importantly, make sure that Hauptwerk and the computer are shutting down cleanly, otherwise settings may get lost or corrupted. Search the log for "INF:4165" messages ("Welcome to Hauptwerk") and make sure that every instance of it is preceded by an "INF:0403" message ("Hauptwerk has finished shutting down."). If it isn't, then Hauptwerk didn't exit cleanly, probably because the computer didn't shut down cleanly, or because an audio or MIDI driver crashed.

Also:

- Test the computer's RAM for errors.
- Test the drive for errors.

Aside from those things, the other thing that will make an organ's settings/voicing appear to become corrupted when reloading an organ after loading a different one is if two organs have the same OrganID in their organ definition files (ODFs), since organ settings/voicing are stored for the OrganID. Sample set producers are supposed to request unique OrganIDs for their sample sets from us, and we allocate them from a central pool to ensure uniqueness. However, if an ODF (or CODM ODF) is used that someone has made themselves with doing that, then its settings/voicing may conflict with those of another organ, resulting in seemingly lost/garbled settings/voicing.

Search the log for the text "Organ ID" (including the space), which will find the messages that are logged whenever an organ has finished loading. Check that the ID of the relevant organ isn't also reported for any other organs.

Very occasionally, virus scanners also corrupted settings files. Also, there have been instances in the past whereby Windows System Restore has tried automatically to revert settings/files/XML to older versions it had backed up, e.g. following a failed Windows updates, or operating system corruption. However, I haven't heard of that occurring for a quite a few years, so maybe Microsoft improved on that.

In case you ever want to compare your current Hauptwerk settings to those from a backup, you could extract the backup via "Help | View/extract the contents of a backup ..." and then compare the corresponding settings files to the current ones using a file comparison utility such as UltraCompare.

However, given that you mention that you route different divisions to different speaker pairs, and that what changed was the relative amplitudes of the divisions, maybe one or more of your amplifiers or speakers developed a fault, or one or more amplifier levels were changed accidentally, or some level setting(s) changed in your audio interface's control panel (or it developed some fault).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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ajt

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Re: Multi channel balance/volume settings changing unexpecte

PostThu Sep 08, 2022 3:35 pm

Thanks, Martin. I’m 100% certain it’s not the amps or speakers, but I may well be on 6.0.1.

That makes me feel happier - I hate unexplained behaviour, so your message makes me feel happier that it will go away shortly when we replace my aged Mac with a new one and up to date Hauptwerk VII. Hopefully soon, then I can get my own instrument back!
Adrian
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Re: Multi channel balance/volume settings changing unexpecte

PostThu Sep 08, 2022 3:55 pm

Thanks, Adrian.

If you're on v6.0.1 then you can update it to v6.0.2 in the meantime anyway, which was the final v6 release, and I'd definitely recommend doing that. That said, I don't think there were any fixes in v6.0.2 above v6.0.1 that would specifically affect levels; he changes are listed in the release notice: https://www.hauptwerk.com/documentation/ . Check the other things I mentioned (Hauptwerk shutting down cleanly, check for two organs with the same OrganID, test RAM, test drive, etc.).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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