Loss of all settings in configurations

Hello all,

I have yet another problem since my upgrade to v7 and is yet another bizarre one. In my recent post here concerning my audio going dull after the Armley Schulze starts, see 'Odd audio behavior with v7' (which we have now come to a conclusion on by the way), during the investigation to see if it was an issue with the set itself Martin suggested I conduct a test.

Just to give an outline of how I had things set up while I had v5, I used 2 separate configurations, one I named 'Hauptwerk Surround' for all my surround sets, and a second configuration I named 'Paramount' that I used for my Paramount 320. The other day while investigating my audio issue Martin suggested I use another configuration just to run a test where I could re-set everything to their defaults in that particular configuration and not interrupt the settings in the configurations I normally use. Well.... it didn't quite work out as planned. For the test I used Alt config 1 which I have never used in the past, it was empty, had no instruments on it ever except for St. Anne's, so was a good choice to use for the test. I proceeded to re-set it to the defaults just in case they weren't and did my test Martin requested I do. Today I decided to select my usual 'Hauptwerk Surround' configuration so I could play the Armley Schulze and I come to find all the info has been completely erased, same goes for all the other configurations (except for 1 and I'll get to that in a second), and they all show the same, that being the only set present is the St. Anne's, so all are as if I've never used the configuration in the past.

As for the one that wasn't affected it is my 'Paramount' configuration, it is as it's always been since I set it up, all the audio assignments are there, the names I gave for each audio channel, all the MIDI assignments work as I set it up, etc., etc.

The only explanation I can come up with is at some time in the past when I created this new 'Paramount' configuration I must have made a copy of the 'Hauptwerk Surround' configuration and then used to copy for the Paramount, but as I recall I had 3 or 4 instances of Hauptwerk configurations on my desktop at the time and I used one of those. If I made a copy that could possibly explain my loss of the settings on all of the configurations except for one? I am now faced with the task of reloading all of my sets as the cache for all has been lost. At least I still have one configuration where I do not need to completely set things up again. Any insight as to what happened would be appreciated. I'd also like if possible to reset from an earlier save that Hauptwerk did in partcular the one Hauptwerk did after I installed v7, but I am unable to find that particular save and each config I've opened has done a save since then, so it's likely lost.

Regards,

Marc

I think you are right that you made copies of, or shortcuts to, some of the existing Main or Alt 1 2 3 configs. The problem is, even a copy will point back to the same actual config directory, so your "copied" config was really just one of the originally installed 4 configs, not a fresh location. So you blew away either Main or one of Alt 1 2 3 when you reset the "copy".

All the past automatic backups should still be present unless you deleted them. They don't overwrite. I'd restore a backup to the main Hauptwerk icon to get going. You can use shortcuts to the installed icons, I do that to run as Admin, but don't treat them as if they were anything but the 4 installed configs. You can't add more than 4 configs.

[mdyde]

Hello Marc,

To confirm Mark Nailor's reply (thanks as always, Mark), yes -- there are always and only four configurations:

- Hauptwerk.
- Hauptwerk (alt config 1).
- Hauptwerk (alt config 2).
- Hauptwerk (alt config 3).

You can't create new/additional configurations. If you were to rename one of those shortcuts, or copy the shortcut and rename it, then it would still in fact point be the same one of those four configurations. I'd definitely recommend against copying or renaming the shortcuts, so as to avoid any potential for confusion about which configuration you're really using.

First I'd recommend deleting your copied/renamed shortcuts, and if you no longer have the above-named shortcuts (e.g. because you renamed them), then you could re-run the v7 installer (leaving all installer options at their defaults) to recreate the standard shortcuts.

Then use "File | Restore your Hauptwerk settings ..." to restore the last backup that was made before you reverted your settings to defaults. Hauptwerk always makes an automatic backup (unless you specifically cancel it) prior to reverting settings to default, and also prior to using a new Hauptwerk version for the first time, so you should have at least two recent backups that still contain all your previous settings. You can find automatic backups in the following folder:

<your-Windows-home-folder>\Hauptwerk\AutomaticBackups

You can get to your Windows home folder by browsing to "C:\Users\<your-Windows-username>", for example.

Hello again, Martin and sorry for all the extra attention I've needed here the past few days.

OK, to be sure I'm doing things correctly, after upgrading to v7 I ended up with the following configs on my desktop:

'Surround' shortcut
"Paramount' shortcut
Hauptwerk shortcut
Alt config 1 shortcut
Alt config 2 shortcut
Alt config 3 shortcut

First off, does this look correct?

Prior to the upgrade to v7 if memory serves me correctly I was using the Hauptwerk shortcut which I renamed to 'Surround.' Later on when I purchased the Paramount 320 I then made a copy of the renamed 'Surround' shortcut because that copy already had all the audio settings done and I think I may have chose just to copy it so I didn't have to do the all audio routing, MIDI and so on over again and figured if I wanted to make any minor changes to the copy I could. What I guess I didn't realize at the time is by making a copy I was in effect creating a duplicate config, and if I understand things correctly, while I thought I had an independent configuration, I in fact had 2 of the same and one affects the other?

I think I will re-read your instructions here a number of times and in fact will probably print your reply, take it home and carefully proceed. I guess if I totally goof up it's not the end of the world, but I will need to select a configuration and re-do the audio, MIDI and so on.

If I delete the renamed copies and I end up doing a re-run of v7 installer, I won't lose my sample sets and need to re-install them, correct?

Thanks again,

Marc

What I guess I didn't realize at the time is by making a copy I was in effect creating a duplicate config, and if I understand things correctly, while I thought I had an independent configuration, I in fact had 2 of the same and one affects the other?
Marc

Copying the desktop shortcut only made a new icon pointing back to the exact same configuration. Nothing you did, or could do, would make a duplicate of a configuration. The things you see on the desktop are just pictures that, when double clicked, take you to one of the existing 4 installed configs.

The icon just refers to the config's underlying directories and files, which are what you change when you change and save settings and combinations, regardless of which icon you used to launch that config.

(The only reason I use a shortcut for Hauptwerk is to set it to run as Admin so it can go real-time.)

Are you sure you can't set up surround and Paramount as different mixer presets in the same config so there's no need for using any of Alt configs except to experiment?

[mdyde]

Hello again, Martin and sorry for all the extra attention I've needed here the past few days.

Thanks, Marc. No problem.

OK, to be sure I'm doing things correctly, after upgrading to v7 I ended up with the following configs on my desktop:

'Surround' shortcut
"Paramount' shortcut
Hauptwerk shortcut
Alt config 1 shortcut
Alt config 2 shortcut
Alt config 3 shortcut

First off, does this look correct?

Yes -- whenever the installer is run it ensures that the following shortcuts are present (recreating them if necessary) on your desktop, and also in your Windows Start menu:

- Hauptwerk.
- Hauptwerk (alt config 1).
- Hauptwerk (alt config 2).
- Hauptwerk (alt config 3).

The installer wouldn't know about the "Surround" and "Paramount" shortcuts that you'd previously created, so they would have been left on your desktop too.

Prior to the upgrade to v7 if memory serves me correctly I was using the Hauptwerk shortcut which I renamed to 'Surround.' Later on when I purchased the Paramount 320 I then made a copy of the renamed 'Surround' shortcut because that copy already had all the audio settings done and I think I may have chose just to copy it so I didn't have to do the all audio routing, MIDI and so on over again and figured if I wanted to make any minor changes to the copy I could. What I guess I didn't realize at the time is by making a copy I was in effect creating a duplicate config, and if I understand things correctly, while I thought I had an independent configuration, I in fact had 2 of the same and one affects the other?

Correct -- your renamed/copied shortcuts would in fact still have pointed to whichever of the original one(s) of the four 'real' configurations from which you'd copied/renamed them. They wouldn't have had independent settings from them. For example, if you had copied the standard "Hauptwerk" shortcut and renamed it "Surround" then you would then have been using and changing the same (shared) settings, regardless of whether you had launched via the standard "Hauptwerk" shortcut or your "Surround" duplicate. I.e. you would only have duplicated the *shortcut*, but not actually created anything independent.

If launching via your "Paramount" shortcut had indeed showed different/independent settings from your "Surround" shortcut, then when you created those shortcuts you must have copied/renamed them from different ones of the four 'real' configurations.

I guess if I totally goof up it's not the end of the world,

Correct -- provided that you still have at least one backup (automatic or otherwise), and that you didn't cancel the backup when it was being made, then you can still get all of your previous settings back by simply restoring the backup (with all default options in the backup restoration wizard), so you shouldn't need to reconfigure any settings (audio, MIDI, or otherwise) at all.

Having done it all, you will just need to work out which of the four standard configurations has the settings that you were previously seeing via your (now-deleted) "Surround" shortcut, and which has the settings that you were previously seeing via your (also now-deleted) "Paramount" shortcut.

If I delete the renamed copies and I end up doing a re-run of v7 installer, I won't lose my sample sets and need to re-install them, correct?

Correct. In itself, simply deleting any shortcuts, and/or re-running the installer with all options at their defaults in the installation wizard, wouldn't delete or move any installed sample set files, so there should be no need to reinstall any sample sets.

(After restoring any backup organ caches will be regenerated the next time that you load those organs.)

[Edit: I see that Mark Nailor and I replied at the same time.]

Hi, Mark and thanks.

The reason I decided to use 2 separate configurations was because with v5 I wanted to use a small amount of reverb with the Paramount, but I didn't want any applied to the Armley Schulze as it's acoustic is good as is, hence my idea was to use the 2 separate configurations to keep them separate from each other.

So, maybe I've also misunderstood something else here as well. My assumption all along has been if you use one configuration for all your sample sets and apply an IR' to one set, then all the other sets in the same config will also have the IR applied. Correct?

Regards,

Marc

Hello, Martin and thanks again. Sorry to be such a trouble maker, I am envisioning you rolling your eyes and saying, ah, geez it's that guy from MN again.

I see I replied at the same time you were above. Can you confirm my assumption about using separate configurations when it comes to applying IR's. I don't want any applied to the Schulze but I do for the Paramount. Do I need to use 2 separate configurations in order to do this?

Thanks again and as I said to you long ago one day when we were sorting out something else, if I bump into you on the street I'll buy you a beer, or do you call it a pint there?

Marc

[mdyde]

Thanks, Marc! You're very welcome.

So, maybe I've also misunderstood something else here as well. My assumption all along has been if you use one configuration for all your sample sets and apply an IR' to one set, then all the other sets in the same config will also have the IR applied. Correct?

Can you confirm my assumption about using separate configurations when it comes to applying IR's. I don't want any applied to the Schulze but I do for the Paramount. Do I need to use 2 separate configurations in order to do this?

You *don't* need to use two separate configurations for that -- you can do it all in one. You could either:

a) On the "General settings | Audio mixer" screen (and "General settings | Audio mixer bus groups" screen) configure one of the 128 mixer presets with your desired reverb, and another without. Then, with any given organ loaded, on the "Audio mixer, routing and voicing/panning settings" large control panel, select which of those mixer presets the organ should use. This method also allows you to use different reverbs for different organs (by using additional mixer presets) if desired. Or:

b) If you only want to have one set of reverb(s) configured, but disabled/enabled on a per-organ basis, then: set up the reverb within one mixer preset (e.g. mixer preset 1) and use the "Mixer impulse response reverb wetness scalar%" slider on the "Audio mixer, routing and voicing/panning settings" large control to turn the reverb(s) on (slider=100%) or off (slider=0%) on a per-organ basis.

See also the two "Audio routing and impulse response reverb part 1/2" chapters in the main Hauptwerk user guide for full explanations of mixer presets and that control panel.

I use one config (Hauptwerk) for all organs, some with IR added and most without.

You can use a mixer preset for wet/surround organs, and a different mixer preset for dry organs adding IR.

Or you can use one preset, for example, with IR added, but slide the wetness scalar to 0% to disable IR for wet/surround organs. There's no overhead when the scalar is 0. From the user guide:

"You can also adjust (scale) the ‘wetness’ of any impulse response reverbs you might have applied on the mixer overall, on a per organ basis, via the Audio Mixer, Routing and Voicing/Panning Settings large control panel."

Or you can use different audio groups with and without IR and route organs' ranks to the right groups. That's what I do because it's easier when I want to add IR to the dry ranks in an otherwise wet sampleset.

The Alt 1 2 3 configs are mostly unnecessary, unless your MIDI and audio devices change back and forth, like for a laptop you move between two consoles and sound systems. But Alt configs can also be handy for safe testing if you are sure which one you're changing.

(Martin typed faster on that one! Basically the same answers.)

Ah, OK got it and thanks to both of you, Martin and Mark for helping out here. At this point I think I owe you both a beer if I happen to bump into either of you on the street!

The way Hauptwerk was in the past when I first got started (v3) compared to now and all the things you can do is vast, all good but it takes time to figure it all out. These good one on one contacts are much more helpful to me than a users manual could ever be and I appreciate that, but I probably should make better use of the manual. The problem is for an issue like this I wouldn't even begin to guess where in it to look. With your help I'm now on the right path and I'll get it sorted out.

Thanks again, have a Merry Christmas to both of you!

Marc

The table of contents at the front of the user guide is unusually detailed, so I start there a lot.

Merry Christmas!

[mdyde]

Thanks, Marc. You're welcome. Have a very good Christmas yourself too.

Just a quick final on this one. Last night I began by deleting the the 2 configurations I had named Surround and Paramount that were still present on my desktop, then just for peace of mind on my end I reinstalled v7. I then restored from a previous backup but not any of the most recent as I wanted to use one I knew for sure contained all my settings uninterrupted. I have not made any changes to any settings for a long time, so I used a backup from November I knew would be good. After that I discovered what I had previously done while using v5. I had not made any copies, instead I left the Hauptwerk config alone as when I opened it upon the re-install and settings restore from backup, I found nothing, no instruments listed, no audio or MIDI setting configurations, it said certain MIDI devices we're not available and I should close or choose to list them as offline, etc. It was as if I had never used the Hauptwerk config and now I recall I didn't. What I did previously was I used Alt config 1 and renamed it Surround for my surround sets and I used Alt config 2, renamed it Paramount and used it for that instrument. Once I opened Alt config 1 all was there as in the past, same for Alt config 2, so all is now good. I made a few adjustments and I'm able to use the High Audio engine processing quality and the High trem / wind supply / swell box setting thus far but really haven't tried pushing things to their limits. It sounds wonderful and I do notice an increase in the sound clarity. Now to set all up under 1 configuration as Martin outlined.

Thanks again.

Marc

[mdyde]

Thanks, Marc. Excellent.