HW 8 Rank Voicing dialog breaks accessibility feature

Hi Martin

When using only the keyboard to open and navigate the Rank Voicing window in HW 8 (including v8.0.1.2), Windows Narrator is unable to read the rank names in the list. A mouse click within the list is first required in order to "unlock" access for Narrator to be able to then read the current rank and subsequent ranks via standard Windows keyboard navigation - arrow keys or 1st character of list item etc.

I hope you consider this a bug in v8, and one to be fixed as soon as possible if it's within your control (as opposed to being a Qt bug). As you may have assumed, I discovered this as a consequence of this issue also hindering the operation of my Automated Random Detuning app.

There may be other HW windows where this is an issue for keyboard only operation in conjunction with Windows Narrator.

Thanks.

Andy

Hi Andy, not that I'm a windows guy, but a mac guy and pleased to witness Hauptwerk finally being usable for the most part, I was just thinking, are there any keyboard shortcut conflicts, or is it a focus based bug? It sounds more like a focus bug, if so, it should be fixable.

have you tried anything else like NVDA as an example? sorry if it sounds like I don't know much, I'm not a windows guy, I'm 100% MacOS and a developer for that environment, but just thought with coming across this, what if there was a focus bug or maybe something else to it.

lew

Hi Lew / Martin

Just to add that I did already try all sorts of key combinations but none have worked. One possibility is that it's some combination which includes the Enter key, but all of those close the window!

Martin - As usual I'm writing this off-line and then copy and paste into the forum. I'm just waiting for the chance - the max_user_connections error is STILL happening after YEARS and also we now sometimes get the time-out error. Is it really that difficult for someone to increase the maximum from 25?

Thanks.

Andy

[mdyde]

Thanks, Andy..

I've had a look.

Internally Hauptwerk uses a particular type of Qt control for the item lists, which are multi-column on real-time MIDI and audio settings screens, and for any item lists whose items are organised within nodes, including (for v8+) also for the rank list on the rank voicing screen, which itself is now organised within nodes.

Evidently text within that type of Qt control isn't copyable, or readable by screen reader software, in some circumstances (multi-column, non-editable, text in a column other the first), and their other columns can't be navigated to by keyboard shortcuts (although they can with a mouse). Hence they required a mouse click. However, I've found a work-around by forcing the specific column containing the text to be selected programmatically each time, and will include that change in the next Hauptwerk version.

If I understand correctly ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20972&p=156834#p156834 ), that should allow your automated tuning application to use Ctrl+C to copy text from them, avoiding the need for a mouse click.

I've also verified that it now allows Windows Narrator to read the item names in the lists on the real-time audio and MIDI settings screens, which doesn't appear to have been possible in previous versions.

Although in v5-v7 the rank list may have been readable by Windows Narrator (but not on macOS), it wouldn't actually have been feasible to use the rank voicing screen via screen-reader software alone anyway, since the note sliders and associated controls didn't have accessibility text indicating which MIDI note numbers they related to. I have now added that text too, so hopefully visually-impaired users may be able operate the screen properly. (However, there are still other parts of Hauptwerk that aren't yet usable via screen-reader software, most notably sample sets' graphical virtual organ consoles.)

Hi Andy, not that I'm a windows guy, but a mac guy and pleased to witness Hauptwerk finally being usable for the most part, I was just thinking, are there any keyboard shortcut conflicts, or is it a focus based bug? It sounds more like a focus bug, if so, it should be fixable.

have you tried anything else like NVDA as an example? sorry if it sounds like I don't know much, I'm not a windows guy, I'm 100% MacOS and a developer for that environment, but just thought with coming across this, what if there was a focus bug or maybe something else to it.

Hello Lewis,

As I understand, Andy isn't himself visually-impaired, but was mainly hoping to be able use Ctrl+C to copy rank names from the list into his home-made automated tuning software, whilst avoiding the need for a mouse click.

(I'll reply to your other topic soon.)

Martin - As usual I'm writing this off-line and then copy and paste into the forum. I'm just waiting for the chance - the max_user_connections error is STILL happening after YEARS and also we now sometimes get the time-out error. Is it really that difficult for someone to increase the maximum from 25?

I'm not involved with the website myself, but I know that it's something that's still in the queue for MDA's web developer to look at. Our apologies for the problem. (As a work-around, prior to submitting a post to the forum, I first use Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C to copy all of the text to the clipboard for good measure, so as to ensure that it can't get lost.)

Hi Martin,

thanks for the comment. I believe Andy is visually impaired because in the original post he states Windows Narrator in tandem with another application which he says is a automated random detuning app, I can only guess this particular app is in conjunction with hauptwerk? but yes, windows narrator is a screen reader like other windows screen readers like JAWS, WindowEyes, NVDA, etc.

one screen reader to test if you have time would be NVDA as it's a free screen reader, it has more to it than windows narrator and I'm thinking it might work with Hauptwerk, if so, it could be recommended for windows users, if not, worth experimenting in finding how to get NVDA to behave with Hauptwerk.

for the mac, it's VoiceOver only and this screen reader is very powerful, it changed the world of music production for the blind in so many ways, we have AVID ProTools and now sibelius for mac accessible with VoiceOver, Apple's Logic Pro X, Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol, etc, so you'd be surprised how VoiceOver has changed the lives of folk like me for many years, at least some of my work is hidden within the god knows how many pages of code now residing in VoiceOvers build kit.

lew

Thanks, Martin. I look forward to your work-around and I expect others will too.

And thanks, Lew, for your input. Although I'm not visually-impaired, I can now see how my initial post could be interpreted that way.

Regards

Andy

Sorry Andy, I thought you were sight impaired because of the use of Windows Narrator.

lew