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Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

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ludu

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Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostSat Jul 16, 2022 8:51 am

Hello,

In my configurations, scoped combinations don’t work properly with Nancy. Only the A1 scoped combination normally works. Trying to define the stops and couplers managed by the other combinations, all the commands of the organ are suddenly switching on! Am I alone to have this behaviour?
Luc
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mdyde

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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostSat Jul 16, 2022 9:24 am

Hello Luc,

All 60 of the scoped combinations work identically internally. If A1 is working as you want it, but a different one isn't, then either:

- There must be some difference in the scopes or registrations that you've stored to them, or:
- You have MIDI configured to/from something that's causing the difference in behaviour.

You could try temporarily switching off your MIDI console, then seeing whether you still see the problem with the on-screen stops, so as to try to determine whether the problem is related to MIDI messages to/from the console.

Also/alternatively, as a test, you could try using a 'spare' one of the 'Hauptwerk (alt config N)' configurations (desktop shortcuts), which has all-default MIDI settings (e.g. use "File | Revert all Hauptwerk settings to factory defaults" within it, then re-launch it, then don't configure any MIDI settings for it) to see whether you still see the problem with the on-screen stops.

Assuming that the scoped combinations *do* then work properly on the on-screen stops, within your normal configuration you could then temporarily enable the "General settings | General preferences | Advanced ... | Diagnostics: log all MIDI messages received and sent" option, then use "Help | View activity log" after testing a non-working scoping combination, so as to see exactly what MIDI messages were sent and received, and what virtual controls/functions any incoming MIDI messages triggered.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostSat Jul 16, 2022 10:13 am

Scoped pistons do seem to work as expected on Nancy, with no differences from other organs. I use about 40 of them as divisional combinations.
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ludu

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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostSat Jul 16, 2022 11:28 am

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I guess I’ll have to give up my research and try to find an alternative trick. The problem occurs on an ‘all-in-one’ Mixtuur console, a very special configuration that does not allow me to master all the elements that manage HW. On the other hand, I tried to interpret the diagnostic document, but it contains hundreds of lines that I feel unable to understand. Fortunately, I have another console, a simpler configuration that I can handle knowing what I’m doing…
Luc
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mdyde

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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostSat Jul 16, 2022 11:41 am

Thanks, Luc.

If the MIDI configuration is complex, you could perhaps consider employing Francois on a consultancy basis to connect remotely to your computer and work with you to troubleshoot it: http://www.hauptwerkconsultant.com/contact-us.html
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostThu Aug 11, 2022 4:43 pm

I will add this youtube video for a great and easy to follow setup of pistons to HW as scoped pistons.

It explained a few steps I didn’t understand and use that I should have been using.

Skip directly to about the 5:30 minute part of this video for the scoping section….

Maybe it will help….

https://youtu.be/T-yDoO0CX04

Pat
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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostFri Nov 18, 2022 8:38 pm

As an extra side note, I too as MNailor has, have been able to successfully scope my divisional pistons on Nancy…. And all other samples as well.

Pat
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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostTue Jan 03, 2023 6:14 pm

A Question for MNailor…..

This is more a question of registering but thought I’d ask….

When you scope and set up divisional pistons on the Nancy, do you also include as part of that scoping, the couplers and stops from other divisions to add sounds to the division you’re scoping?

For example, would you (and would it be common) add say all the Positiv and Recit stops so you can add them to the Grande Orgue as part of your scoping of the Grande Orgue division…. for a greater range of sound on the Grande Orgue?

Just wondering if this is normal for scoping large cathedral organs…. Seems it would/should be but not sure as I have no training on it.

Thanks!

Pat
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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostTue Jan 03, 2023 6:26 pm

Usually not. When scoping the pistons for a division, you scope only the division's stops. It's customary to also scope all couplers that apply to that division, but it's not necessary. Personally I would also scope the Ventils/combs for that division on a CC, but perhaps not everyone would. That would let you ensure when you press a certain piston, you get the reeds even if the ventil isn't currently selected.
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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostTue Jan 03, 2023 9:56 pm

Pat, I don't include any other manual division couplers or stops in a divisional's scope, just the division's own stops, self-couplers and tremulant. I do include Pedal stops on the Great/GO divisionals, like a permanent Great and Pedal combinations coupled, but that's an experiment I may drop. It's too confusing if I hit a divisional that changes what I had just chosen on another manual.

I keep the interdivisional couplers on reversible toe studs, as well as reversibles for each division's chorus reeds (fake appels).

Divisionals, and most of our playing aids, are a cheat that didn't exist on C-C consoles in the 19th century. They had pedals for couplers and Anches windchest ventils, but not much else. The ventils are basically a scoped reversible, which Hauptwerk doesn't have.

I don't feel like divisional thumb pistons are avoidable, since I use them in place of drawknobs or my trying to mash the touchscreen using peripheral vision and a shaking hand. But it wasn't normal for continental cathedral organs to have a lot of pistons, and still isn't. England started to have them in the later 1800s, but sometimes preset by the builder rather than a modern capture system.

I guess the answer is, pick the organ management tools that work well for you when playing, and don't waste too much of your time setting up. The historical instrument probably had almost none of those tools, just drawknobs, so trying to be historically accurate about the buttons instead of about the resulting registration changes is pointless.
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Re: Nancy CC & Scoped Combinations Problems

PostWed Jan 04, 2023 3:04 pm

Thank you Larason2 and MNailor!!!!!!!!!

Ya know, this whole divisional, pistons, thumb pistons etc… is so much more “involved” than I have thought all these years I’ve been exposed to large organs on HW!!!! Its just a veritable smorgasboard of options…. That seemingly more often than not, can be pretty complex for my untrained mind!

But, that is part of the fun of it all… when I actually sit down and try to figure it all out… and have that, “Ahhhhh, so THATS how it works” moment! Lol.

Thanks again to everyone on the thread for your answers.

Pat
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Las Vegas, Nevada

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