Masterworks 331

I just purchased the Masterworks 331, I figured I'd see what people are using for an Ir reverb?

I don't have the Masterworks 331, but I do have the Paramount 450. Pretty much the only IR I use these days is the "Church02 ORTF 5m LR 4.0s" that came with Hauptwerk. It is pretty flat, so it usually doesn't throw any organs off voicing too badly, has a nice reverb but is not too long and is still fairly clear, and is interesting enough that it adds character to stops without making them sound wonky. I only use it for organs that in my opinion really don't have enough reverb to sound good on their own, and that's only a handful of the organs I have. I do use it with the Paramount 450 though.

I’ve been using HW for a bit over a decade… and just learned something new, although maybe its new to HW 7… not sure.
But it adds another reverb adjustment to the preset one you chose.

So, if you go to “General Settings > Audio Mixer > Audio Settings Control Panel: Then you’ll see a slider labeled “Mixer impulse response reverb wetness scalar %.

Slide to adjust the reverb to either increase or decrease it.

Maybe everyone but me knew this, but it was something I’d not know about for years until a few months ago.

Pat

[mdyde]

Hello Pat,

The "Master impulse response reverb wetness scalar" slider on the "Audio Mixer, Routing and Voicing/Panning Settings" large control panel doesn't actually add an additional reverb -- instead it simply allows you to adjust (scale) the ‘wetness’ overall, and on a per-organ basis, of any impulse response reverbs you might have applied on the mixer.

See page 203 (v7.0 version) of the Hauptwerk user guide for full details (within the "Audio routing and impulse response reverb part 1 ... | Overview and key concepts for basic use" section). Here's the paragraph about it:

This provides a very simple and quick means to tweak reverb wetness, and/or disable reverb, on a per-organ basis. If the control panel’s wetness scalar is set to 0% for an organ then impulse response reverb processing is entirely bypassed for that organ (thus avoiding any real-time CPU overheads from it), and the output of any mixer buses will be fully ‘dry’ (even if reverbs are assigned to them). (As above, ‘Mixer presets’ can also be used to set up different reverbs for different organs.)

Pat,
So glad you found this control. For me it's a must. I MIDI set a pot to control this.
Hopefully one day I will be able to set this for ALL ORGANS.

Stephen

Church02 (Freiberg), already mentioned, is fairly neutral, and Church03 (Izola) is possibly even better for small to medium sized, dry organs.

The IR Guide PDF downloadable from Sonus Paradisi shows what buildings the IRs shipped with HW came from.

MNailor, how were you able to find out which church corresponds to each Impulse Response? I've been trying to find this!

MNailor, how were you able to find out which church corresponds to each Impulse Response? I've been trying to find this!

https://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/irs.html

Download the link labeled "a PDF Guide" and skim through it looking for IRs that have the HW demo IR names at the bottom of the list of SP IRs for the building. Usually at the bottom right on the pages.

Thanks!

Guys,

Have you found the SP IR’s to be more and/or better than the HW reverb options for us? I’ve been debating this for since it first came out and haven’t experienced it yet on my system, so can only go by what everyone says about it…..

Thanks for your thoughts

And thanks Martin for the explanation. I did find it added “just a small amount” of reverb to sets that didn’t quite have what I prefer, but yes I can see that this adjustment is small.

Pat

As an example, I'm using some of the SP Caen IRs for certain organs. I have different primary buses set up with front omni or rear facing IRs, all at 6 meters, and using a few of the sources, PE, RE, and GO, for different bus groups. Having multiple mic positions and difference impulse sources works well if you have audio groups that can use them sensibly and not create a jumble. I don't vary the IR within a group for obvious reasons. The demo IRs don't usually give choices in the same building.

If you apply IR to a single mixdown bus as many people do, having more than one IR choice per building isn't necessary. It only makes sense to use multiple IRs if they are applied to each bus or to a mixdown for each group.

Hello Jake,

I only just saw your post, which is relevant to recent activities I've been undertaking with the 3-31 sample set on my own VTPO. I'm extremely happy with this set, and would like to make few reflections (no pun intended!) on your posting:

1. My own installation is in a room 20ft square and 10 feet high with a solid oak floor; I have a left stereo pair for Main chamber stops and a right stereo pair for the Solo - they are on opposite sides of the room. The original 3-31 set is by most standards 'dry' but has a certain 'presence' which in my room gives an impression not unlike a real pipe installation speaking into the room. From a playing perspective it's fine, even if it takes a few minutes to get used to, but on the other hand a very little reverb might not hurt (remark from one or two well known visiting players as well), so I started to play around with the HW impulse reverbs (IRs).

2. In-theatre reverb is quite different in character to church reverb in terms of the frequencies in the reverb. A theatre reverb is more mid-range with a warm bass (that big 'whoomph') due to the nature of the furnishings, whereas in a church or other masonry building the reverb will favour the higher frequencies.

3. I tried adding a modicum of reverb (about as little as possible) using the provided IRs in HW7. Although the basic system worked well, the IRs provided a kind of 'ringing' tone and clearly were not taken from a theatre environment. In the end I thought I was better off without.

4. I'm now looking for a better externally provided IR model. There is quite a lot of information about the theory and practise of creating these IRs on the Sonus Paradisi website which is good background knowledge. They also sell IRs but, again, I could not see any that were taken from a cinema or theatre.

5. All in all there's probably a need for theatre organ specific IR models. Even the HW Concert Hall IR model is far from what we need. Almost certainly something exists in the big 'out there' which I'll look for (I have a sound engineer friend who also has the 3-31 set who is interested).

6. IMO the 3-31 set is quite different to the Paramount sets in terms of acoustic image portrayed, and I'm not at all sure that what applies to the Paramount set in terms of reverb is particularly applicable to the 3-31. My opinion - others may differ

7. As a further aside, I'm not sure that reverb really makes a set in itself more 'realistic', although some may differ. IMO it's more about detailed voicing and regulation of the set to suit the room; I also think that the HW wind model adds a great deal of realism in terms of the response of the instrument as its played.

If I find more, I'll share it.

Best wishes,

John.

As noted, the typical theatre organ environment is not anywhere as reverberant as a church. Most theatres are fairly dry because of the drapery, carpets and relatively softer wall surfaces (wood or plaster versus stone). While theatres such as the Paramount New York or Fox San Francisco were quite cavernous, which would provide for a long reverb time, the number of reverb cycles would be short.

I like the "Pasadena Studio" sound achieved by George Wright. This was a relatively "up front" sound, but still enough natural reverb to provide warmth. I'm getting good results with the dry Albee Wurlitzer sample set, and the supplied Hauptwerk IR response "Chapel 01 - 3.3m - LR-1.5 s. Wet pre-delay of 3 ms, wet mix 30%, reverb wet level adjust -14 db."

You can play with the variables to optimize for your particular room size, and the distance from the speakers to your playing position. But the key point is that I think the small chapel IR response and the relatively short reverb time (1.5 seconds) is a good starting point for a theatre organ,

An interesting point is that Jesse Crawford never recorded in the New York Paramount auditorium itself. Don Baker and George Wright did, Crawford's early recordings were in the Chicago store, and the later ones in the Paramount studio. All of Crawford's recordings have minimal reverb.

Ray

The great British theatre organist Reginald Porter-Brown kindly allowed me to sit in on a recording for a BBC broadcast in a London cinema (it may have been the ABC Richmond) around 1962. At the end of the session he asked one of the engineers for some “assisted reverb” – implying that this would be added later in the studio. The cinema was empty during the recording – that would have lengthened the reverberation period, so Reg evidently considered that more was needed.

I find that all theatre organ sets sound better with a modest amount of reverb – but I’m not aiming for realism, just for a pleasing, interesting sound.

As someone who thought the Chicago Stadium Barton organ was, “about right” for acoustics, I require the IR’s for my Paramount and 3-31 Masterworks samples.

I find however, that when I go from setting 1 to setting two or access the IR’s, my volume level literally triples to the high side.

For example, I generally play all my samples at a volume of about -04. When I switch over to the Setting 2 to access the IR’s, I then have to reduce my master volume setting to…. Literally about -20 for it to be at the same volume!!

Anyone know why that is… and what change I need to make so it does not do that? It’s Significantly higher which I don’t like.

It did not ever used to be that way so apparently some setting has changed that I’m not aware of and honestly don’t really know how I would find out.

Thanks if you know!!

Pat