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New Features for Caen Sampleset

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subbas32

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostFri Jan 08, 2016 7:20 pm

Hello Tom, all,

Best wishes to all for the new year!

Version 2.0 of the 4-manual Caen extension is available as of today and is free for all who currently own version 1.0. I just circulated an email with the download links. Let me know if you currently own version 1.0 but didn't receive the email with the new download links.

I've also posted an updated draft of the user manual here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w3g1kprev1zt ... rGuide.pdf
Most of the new features are summarized by the screenshots on pages 25 and 27 of the user manual.

If you don't own version 1.0 and would like to purchase the extension, the price for version 2.0 is US $115 (includes US $15 fee for the dongle update).

Thanks, and best regards,

Jake
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Jib

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostSat Jan 09, 2016 6:16 am

Hello Jake, and thanks for the update and beautiful work!

I made small changes on a few stops (mostly increasing volume on some 8'). Will I lose these settings when installing v.2?
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subbas32

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostSat Jan 09, 2016 4:21 pm

Hello Jib,

I made small changes on a few stops (mostly increasing volume on some 8'). Will I lose these settings when installing v.2?

No, you shouldn't lose your voicing settings. Just make sure that you do not un-install version 1.0 before installing version 2.0.

Best regards,

Jake
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Doc

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostSat Jan 09, 2016 5:01 pm

Good evening Jake,
I very sincerely thank you for your work. This sample set gives many opportunities and the sound is really splendid. I am sure that there will be very soon many recordings on contrebombarde ! :) The last additions are very useful (coupure pédale, septièmes, neuvièmes, mutations, plein jeux progressifs, new chamades...), and this new 1st keyboard (grand choeur) is very successful.
Doc
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Cavaillé-Cool

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostSun Jan 10, 2016 7:05 am

Exceptional achievement Jake.

Just a tiny request about the Pedal split.
I regret that there is no true « Tirasse » (8 and 4) to the 5th manual and which can be used with the « Coupure de Pédale » button. If one uses the Master couplers control panel and the split button, this is OK for the Pedal stops but there is no split on the 5th manual.

Now, my hope would be that you plan to do the same job for the dry version of the Caen CC.
Certainly, the work to do should be less considerable than for the surround version. In church environment, the truncated Caen wet sample does not sound very well in contrast to the dry version.

Again, many thanks Jake and my best wishes for the new year.

Paul
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subbas32

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostMon Jan 11, 2016 1:36 pm

Hello Doc, hello Paul,

Thanks for your feedback!

Just a tiny request about the Pedal split.
I regret that there is no true « Tirasse » (8 and 4) to the 5th manual and which can be used with the « Coupure de Pédale » button. If one uses the Master couplers control panel and the split button, this is OK for the Pedal stops but there is no split on the 5th manual.

I see what you mean, I made a note of your point. I didn't add any couplers for the 5th manual since most of the stops on this division are also playable on the Grand Orgue.

Now, my hope would be that you plan to do the same job for the dry version of the Caen CC.
Certainly, the work to do should be less considerable than for the surround version. In church environment, the truncated Caen wet sample does not sound very well in contrast to the dry version.

I do plan to start a new project within the next few weeks, but at this point I'm not sure what it'll be. So far I haven't received too many requests for a dry version of the 4-manual Caen extension, so I'm not sure preparing it will be feasible. I will post a survey on the forum within the next few weeks to gauge what people are most interested in.

Best regards,

Jake
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Cavaillé-Cool

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostMon Jan 11, 2016 6:02 pm

Hello Jake,

I see what you mean, I made a note of your point. I didn't add any couplers for the 5th manual since most of the stops on this division are also playable on the Grand Orgue.

The reeds of the Grand-Orgue also on the 5th manual is a very interesting idea. Let us consider the following registration : Plenum with the hands and the left foot and Cantus firmus with the right foot. The Plenum is better if you can play the four first manuals (without reeds) and play the 5th manual with the right foot. In that case, you have also the opportunity to use the Montre 32 ' for the plenum.

I do plan to start a new project within the next few weeks, but at this point I'm not sure what it'll be. So far I haven't received too many requests for a dry version of the 4-manual Caen extension, so I'm not sure preparing it will be feasible. I will post a survey on the forum within the next few weeks to gauge what people are most interested in.

About a project of a Caen extended dry sample set, it seems to me (perhaps am I completly wrong) that the major part of the work is already done within the present version. Then, even with less people interested, the cost could remain acceptable for us.

Best regards.
Paul
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subbas32

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostTue Jan 12, 2016 1:17 pm

Hello Paul,

About a project of a Caen extended dry sample set, it seems to me (perhaps am I completly wrong) that the major part of the work is already done within the present version. Then, even with less people interested, the cost could remain acceptable for us.

You're right that some parts of the Surround extension can be transferred to a possible Dry extension. A significant part of the development of the extension was deciding which stops to add and from which existing stops to derive them from. This would not have to be repeated for a Dry version. In addition, the graphics of the Surround version can also be transferred to the Dry version. Having said that, coding up a Dry version of extension would still take at least a few months.

More details on future plans to follow!

Best regards,

Jake
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CHRIS 037

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostWed Jan 13, 2016 3:55 pm

Here's a suggestion for those of you that would like an extended dry version of the Caen:

I had asked for this a while back, but now I realize I don't actually need it.

I just load the front stereo ranks with the reverb tails cut to 180 ms. (the Pedal to slightly longer tails).
The resolution and clarity of the samples is quite good. It is as good as a dry set would be, IMHO.

I do also add room reverb with my external Lexicon unit.

So, it might be worth giving that a try rather than develop a whole new sample set ODF.(?)

Leo Chris. :)
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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostWed Jan 13, 2016 4:13 pm

I agree with Leo. When I bought the original version of Caen, I first opted for the dry version because I always use convolution reverb, but I was unsatisfied. When I bought the wet update and loaded it with truncation (120 ms in my case), I discovered a better balance between the stops and a nicer sound, less gross.
Luc
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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostThu Jan 14, 2016 10:03 am

Hello Leo and Luke,

I am happy to benefit from the experience of people using truncated wet samples.

For a decade, I use the Hauptwerk software in two churches .When these churches are empty, the reverberation times are about 2,5 s and 4s and respectively 0.5s and 1.5s when the churches are full of people.
Every time I acquired a new sampled set, I tried truncated versions. I now own a good thirty organs and I have always found the truncated versions detestable, whatever the cut-off time.

I have found several view points on the forum. Some recommend not too short decay time (1s to 2s) .Others advocate short decay time (120ms to 250 ms).
My experience, in these churches, with my setup, is that the shorter the reverb tails cut is, the more convincing the organ is, with no trebles deficit. My english is not enough good to explain exactly what I feel. However, curiously, cutting reverb tails seems to induce a cut off in frequencies. In addition, the true reverberation is always there in sustained notes, even with a strong truncation to 120 ms.

I am not discussing here, how the pseudo dry sample set obtained after truncation is like the original organ or not, nor if the stops are well balanced, but just how what I hear is convincing.
The Caen extended surround is very beautiful at home. Of course, in my churches, I have tried to load it with many different truncation times. Very disappointing. I always returned to the Caen dry version.
That is why I would like an extended dry version of the Caen.

Unfortunately, I have no experience in sound recording in churches and even I do not own good microphones. Otherwise I would have uploaded some tests on the website contrebombarde to show you the sounds. I would be very interested if someone can do that tests to convince me that may be my hardware profile or my organ settings are inappropriate.

Hardware profile :
- 2 x 300 W speakers (from the installed AHLBORN 350 organ). They are installed at mid - height on the wall of the transept. The console is about ten meters from speakers.
- Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP.

Best regards.
Paul
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mdyde

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostThu Jan 14, 2016 10:22 am

Cavaillé-Cool wrote:However, curiously, cutting reverb tails seems to induce a cut off in frequencies.


Since, in a real room acoustic, higher frequencies die away more quickly that lower frequencies, reverb tails (release samples) are more 'bassy' overall (on average) than their associated attack/sustain samples.

By truncating releases you effectively change the balance (on average) between the amount of attack/sustain samples sounding at any given point in time, and the amount of release sample sounding, and thus change the perceived overall (average) balance between the higher and lower frequencies.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Cavaillé-Cool

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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostFri Jan 15, 2016 5:19 pm

Martin wrote :
Since, in a real room acoustic, higher frequencies die away more quickly that lower frequencies, reverb tails (release samples) are more 'bassy' overall (on average) than their associated attack/sustain samples.

Very interesting explanation Martin. Now, I understand why the dry Caen is brighter than the wet Caen since there is no reverberation in the attack/sustain samples sounding.
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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostTue Jan 19, 2016 4:32 am

Hello all,

A French translation of the user manual for version 2.0 is now also available. Many thanks to Luc (ludu) for providing the translation:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/18ltxrmd4990hrp/4ManualCaenExtension_UserGuide_francais.pdf

Best regards,

Jake
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Re: New Features for Caen Sampleset

PostSun Jan 24, 2016 3:53 pm

I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing to use this 4 manual set with my 3 manual console.
Of course this can be managed using HWs floating divisions, or is it better (in this case) to assign both GC & GO to the lower manual, or should I assign GC GO & Pos to the three manuals & couple the Rec down as required ?
I realise that there is probably no single right answer, but I'd be interested to hear how you all do it......
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