It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:59 am


bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Theorbe

Member

  • Posts: 97
  • Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:10 am

bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostTue May 25, 2021 4:37 pm

Deleted by author.
Last edited by Theorbe on Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

1961TC4ME

Member

  • Posts: 3144
  • Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:45 pm
  • Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostTue May 25, 2021 4:54 pm

Thanks, Andy. Much appreciated!

Marc
Offline

OrganoPleno

Member

  • Posts: 652
  • Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostTue May 25, 2021 7:36 pm

Theorbe wrote:If there is anything that needs clarification or any problems, contact me via private message and I’ll see if I can help further.


When the tuning randomizations are applied, does the Cache File need to be re-built?
Offline
User avatar

CarsonCooman

Member

  • Posts: 173
  • Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:01 am
  • Location: Cambridge, MA

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostTue May 25, 2021 9:22 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:When the tuning randomizations are applied, does the Cache File need to be re-built?


No. All the app is doing is making changes in the Hauptwerk voicing screen. It does not affect the cache.
Offline

OrganoPleno

Member

  • Posts: 652
  • Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostTue May 25, 2021 9:35 pm

CarsonCooman wrote:All the app is doing is making changes in the Hauptwerk voicing screen. It does not affect the cache.


Thanks! Good to know.
Offline

Theorbe

Member

  • Posts: 97
  • Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:10 am

bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostWed May 26, 2021 5:00 am

Deleted by author.
Last edited by Theorbe on Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Frank_VTPO

Member

  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:32 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostWed May 26, 2021 4:30 pm

You might like to check the "truncated normal distribution" by a Google search.
Wikipedia and a PDF file from the Univ. Florida contain good information and a few programming languages do already contain a command for it.
The idea behind is that all values too far off the mean value are rejected and calculated again, until they lie in the desired range. As long as this range is not set too narrow the deviation from the unmodified normal distribution is small.
Best wishes,
Frank
Offline

1961TC4ME

Member

  • Posts: 3144
  • Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:45 pm
  • Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostThu May 27, 2021 8:40 am

Tried to install and try your utility this morning, got the message during the install that it wasn't 'properly formatted' and could not continue. No detuning going on here other than what Hauptwerk already does.

Windows 7 Pro

Marc
Offline

Theorbe

Member

  • Posts: 97
  • Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:10 am

bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostThu May 27, 2021 5:17 pm

Deleted by author.
Last edited by Theorbe on Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Theorbe

Member

  • Posts: 97
  • Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:10 am

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostThu May 27, 2021 7:50 pm

Deleted by author.
Last edited by Theorbe on Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

evertjan

Member

  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostFri May 28, 2021 2:19 am

Marc, Andy and others

For handling SHA2 coded installers in Windows 7 you need to install 2 updates: KB4474419 and KB4490628
See https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/top ... a4cde8e64f

If not installed, you also cannot install for instance the latest Windows 7 system updates.

These are the stand alone installers:
For KB4474419: https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.co ... =KB4474419
For KB4490628: https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.co ... =KB4490628

In both cases chose the "Window 7 for x64-based Systems" version and *not* the Embedded, 2008 server or x86 based systems version.

Download on a PC, connected to internet and transfer both files using a USB stick to your Hauptwerk PC if your HW PC is not connected to internet.


After that, the detuning installer should work.
Offline

1961TC4ME

Member

  • Posts: 3144
  • Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:45 pm
  • Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostFri May 28, 2021 10:34 am

evertjan wrote:Marc, Andy and others

For handling SHA2 coded installers in Windows 7 you need to install 2 updates:

If not installed, you also cannot install for instance the latest Windows 7 system updates.


After that, the detuning installer should work.


Thanks evertjan,

I figured it was something like that as one of the other messages I was getting is I need to download something .NET Frame (or whatever), I don't remember the exact verbage, but the message said there's something not up to date on my computer needed in order for the installer to work. I am somewhat ashamed to admit, but my Win 7 computer is of 2011 vintage and just keeps going (knock on wood) :mrgreen: but has literally not been on the internet since day one, so I'm sure there's a few updates from Microsoft it has missed. Updates downloaded, I will give your suggestion a try and report the outcome.

Thanks again!

Marc
Offline

TubaFan

Member

  • Posts: 54
  • Joined: Fri May 15, 2020 8:57 am

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostSat May 29, 2021 9:17 am

This is detuning entire ranks, correct? What is the maximum detuning allowed?

I've been experimenting with one of my sample sets and manually detuned ranks, and it definitely sounds better. Once I feel like I am "done" adjusting ranks, I'll share my strategy here in case anyone prefers to do it manually.
Offline

josq

Member

  • Posts: 912
  • Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:11 pm

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostSat May 29, 2021 12:49 pm

I'm interested in the question whether different ranks/samples (for example, reeds vs labials) should on average have different amounts of detuning.
Offline

TubaFan

Member

  • Posts: 54
  • Joined: Fri May 15, 2020 8:57 am

Re: bad sounding sample sets because too perfect

PostSat May 29, 2021 1:23 pm

josq wrote:I'm interested in the question whether different ranks/samples (for example, reeds vs labials) should on average have different amounts of detuning.


From playing around with this just a little bit so far, it seems that even a small change in the reeds is very noticeable.

I am curious about what the maximum +/- is that still sounds "in tune."

I am trying to make sure that no two stops in a division of the same pitch are exactly in tune with each other, and that choruses (Diapason 8'/4'/2' or reeds 16'/8'/4' for example) are not exactly in tune with each other either. All of the 8' Diapasons on the organ are also not exactly on the same pitch.
PreviousNext

Return to Hauptwerk instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests