It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:57 am


Trost Organ Demo

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

abaymajr

Member

  • Posts: 171
  • Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:54 pm

Re: Trost Organ Demo

PostFri Feb 25, 2022 6:54 am

mdyde wrote:Thanks, abaymajr.

If you wanted to, you could potentially also experiment with adjusting the wind model depth and/or flow adjustments on the "Organ settings | Organ preferences | Wind supply model" screen tab. However, since the Balint Karosi demo recording was made directly on the real Trost organ, it will inevitably never sound exactly the same as any recording made from a sample set. (Aside from Hauptwerk, mic. positions/models, sample processing, etc. would make a significant difference to the end result.)


I performed the additional experimentation you suggested, and another one, like applying a compatible convolution reverb to 120 ms live truncated samples to check if a richer resonance would make a noticeable difference in that aspect, but no avail. The best solution was, indeed, achieved with a -1.5db adjustment to the overall brightness. The comparison with another famous recording, the Hans André Stamm's one, reproduced on the same speakers and at the same sound intensity and inside the same audio workflow, confirmed this adjustment.

In any case, I'm very very grateful to the developers of Hauptwerk for providing it with so many useful adjustments that allow us to make such fine objective/subjective adjustments to the material recorded on these samplesets.

This sampleset was made at the time of HW3 and might be optimized by Prof. Meier for those particular circumstances. I'm not sure if that would have an influence or if, influencing, it would be decisive though. Of course, I still grant the not small possibility that this argued sonority was always present in the sampleset, but it only caught my attention after this recent sampleset revisitation of and direct comparison, side by side, with these live recordings.

Prof. Meier and/or another organist who uses the mentioned sampleset and has played the real Trost or preferably listened to it in the acoustic perspective of the recital recordings and the sampleset could make a valuable contribution to this debate.
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 15441
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: Trost Organ Demo

PostFri Feb 25, 2022 7:19 am

Thanks, abaymajr.

With the wind model disabled, there wouldn't be any difference in brightness or pipes' sound between v7 and any earlier version, except solely that v7 will have lower distortion (depending on the chosen "Audio engine processing quality"). Hence I think you must just be hearing a difference between the sample set and that particular recording of the real organ that you hadn't noticed before.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
Offline
User avatar

JulianMoney-Kyrle

Member

  • Posts: 386
  • Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:23 pm
  • Location: Calne, Wiltshire, UK

Re: Trost Organ Demo

PostFri Feb 25, 2022 6:59 pm

Trost was one of the first organs that I tried after upgrading to HW7, and I was pleased to find that it sounded LESS harsh than it did before. I have a fast PC and had all sound quality options ticked.

I am using a MOTU Ultralite Mk4 as my audio interface, with some channels going via the digital optical output to a Behringer DAC to give me 12 channels altogether configured as 6 stereo pairs of Behringer 2031A active monitors, as well as an SVS subwoofer taking a mix-down from all of them.

Clearly different people are going to have different experiences according to their hardware, but I have noticed an improvement in sound quality each time going from 4 to 5, then to 6, then to 7. To my ears this has manifested as greater clarity using full registrations, and a better sense of space or presence.
Offline

münsterorganist

Member

  • Posts: 135
  • Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:24 am

Re: Trost Organ Demo

PostSat Feb 26, 2022 7:46 am

This morning I worked intensively with the video and the Trost sample from OAM and compared them. Once with headphone-AKG 701 - and via my 10 channel sound system .
I found, that in the range of stops 16' to 2,2/3 you get a compatible very good sound results . But from stop 2' and above all with the Mixtures the sound is only shrill. Even experimenting with the "brightness" sound settings did not result in many improvment.
I use the same sound system for sample und video. Since the video recording reproduces the original sound well, the problem must be lie with the sample recording.
Apparently it is difficult to reproduce the high frequencies transparently despite all the efforts of high resolution. But I think, that is a problem with all samples. An improvment in the three- dimensonality and naturalness of the mixtures would be an enrichment for HW.
Offline

larason2

Member

  • Posts: 751
  • Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 pm

Re: Trost Organ Demo

PostSat Feb 26, 2022 8:18 am

In my opinion the problem with mixtures isn’t Hauptwerk, but a function of how they are recorded. In my opinion and that of Charles Fisk, baroque mixtures sound best when they are relatively starved of wind, which usually only happens on an organ with unsteady (baroque) wind supply and many other wind consuming stops pulled. If you record the stop by itself on a Baroque organ, the mixtures will always be over winded, and as such will sound shrill. You can actually get them to sound better in Hauptwerk at the CODM or ODF level by reducing their wind supply in the wind model. I’ve done this many times in the CODM, and the improvement is dramatic. However, with HW7’s improved wind model, it may very well be that older sets have to be tweaked in the wind model to sound the same as they did before. This also doesn’t appear to be a problem on romantic or modern organs that are more copiously winded. Another approach is to record the mixtures with other stops pulled, but it is too late for that!
Offline

münsterorganist

Member

  • Posts: 135
  • Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:24 am

Re: Trost Organ Demo

PostSat Feb 26, 2022 12:48 pm

It's my opinion too, it's not HW. Listen to the transition from stops Prinzipal 8 and 4, and 2,2/3 Quinte, and then the addition of Mixtur 8f in video. Try this with the sample too and you'll hear, what I mean. The sounds mix. The sample does not so this in this way. Maybe HW can simultane this effect in the future. What does Martin mean?
Previous

Return to Hauptwerk instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests