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Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

Existing and forthcoming Hauptwerk instruments, recommendations, ...
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B777Captain

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Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostFri Jun 11, 2021 6:22 pm

Hey Gang!!!

I’m having a hard time deciding whether to get the Nancy with it’s cost…. Or stay with the 3 current Cavaille Col instruments I have and honestly like quite a bit. Francois from Hauptwerkconsultant.com emailed me recently he had a chance to play with it a bit and really enjoyed it and thought I’d like it as well since I love the whole CC experience and sound.

As mentioned in the title, I have the Metz, which is smallish comparatively speaking, the Grand Symphonic and the Aristide CC. In my sample sets, I find that I gravitate mostly to the Gorlitz and Aristide…. For acoustics, although the Nancy seems to have a bit more acoustics, which to me is something I REALLY enjoy!!

I’ve always loved the CC sound with its “big and acoustical” effect,… but is it worth the price tag or will it sound pretty much like the current CC’s I already have???

I’d genuinely enjoy everyone’s thoughts on this conundrum.

Thanks

Pat
Pilot Southwest Airlines
Las Vegas, Nevada
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larason2

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostFri Jun 11, 2021 10:02 pm

I’d probably get Nancy. If you listen to the demo on the website, at the end of Widor’s tocatta you get that grand organ sound you can only get on a Cavaillé-Coll organ with that kind of acoustic and that many reeds and mixtures. Your other organs have reeds and mixtures, but it’s really something else to have so many different reed timbres and mixtures all contributing to the Grand Jeu. Given what you said in your post, it’s probably going to be one of your new “go to’s.”
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Theorbe

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Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 6:21 am

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Last edited by Theorbe on Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OrganoPleno

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 12:24 pm

Theorbe wrote:I have bought this sample set and spent a lot of time experimenting. Unfortunately, I still can't get repeated staccatos to sound realistic.


These things of course are always a matter of personal Taste.

For a good demonstration of how the Staccato actually sounds on the Nancy Cathedral Sample Set, may I recommend my recent posting on ContreBombarde:
https://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/47086

(The Toccata in D-Major by Lanquetuit)

This performance contains 170 measures which are almost ENTIRELY Staccato! (Except for the Pedal part, and the sections of Melody in the right hand.) So anybody wondering about how Staccato really sounds on this Sample Set should be able to get a pretty good idea of all that right here!

The settings which I use for the Organ are available here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19792&p=148516&sid=0365c24655f5b5d2eec3c185095b87aa#p148516
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marcus.reeves

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 12:54 pm

Richard McVeigh’s demonstration is worth watching. It appears there are some compromises with this set which are not immediately obvious, e.g not all the tremulants were working when it was recorded so artificial tremulants are used for those. That was enough to put me off, especially at that price point.

The video can be watched here: https://youtu.be/SQ3jMRrN9v8
Best wishes,
Marcus
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OrganoPleno

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 1:20 pm

marcus.reeves wrote:Not all the tremulants were working when it was recorded so artificial tremulants are used for those.


Tremulant model:

Positif - sampled chromatically
Récit expressif - artificial
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marcus.reeves

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 1:27 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:Tremulant model:

Positif - sampled chromatically
Récit expressif - artificial


Thank you, I couldn’t quite remember which divisions were which when it came to the tremulants. As far as I can see, that information is not on Piotr’s website, which, for me, it probably should be.
Best wishes,
Marcus
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OrganoPleno

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 1:30 pm

marcus.reeves wrote:As far as I can see, that information is not on Piotr’s website, which, for me, it probably should be.


That's exactly where I found it:
https://piotrgrabowski.pl/nancy/
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marcus.reeves

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 1:48 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:That's exactly where I found it:
https://piotrgrabowski.pl/nancy/


:oops: Quite right, I hadn’t spotted it there, under the technical details. Thank you for correcting me.
Best wishes,
Marcus
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marcus.reeves

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 1:57 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:
Theorbe wrote:I have bought this sample set and spent a lot of time experimenting. Unfortunately, I still can't get repeated staccatos to sound realistic.


These things of course are always a matter of personal Taste.

For a good demonstration of how the Staccato actually sounds on the Nancy Cathedral Sample Set, may I recommend my recent posting on ContreBombarde:
https://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/47086

(The Toccata in D-Major by Lanquetuit)

This performance contains 170 measures which are almost ENTIRELY Staccato! (Except for the Pedal part, and the sections of Melody in the right hand.) So anybody wondering about how Staccato really sounds on this Sample Set should be able to get a pretty good idea of all that right here!

The settings which I use for the Organ are available here:
http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.ph ... aa#p148516


I’ve just listened to this and note it’s a MIDI recording rather than a live one. I’ve not much experience with MIDI recordings having only recorded live myself. I note the speed of the recording is much faster than most commercial versions I know, e.g. Jane Parker-Smith. Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do we know HW is using the staccato releases given the speed as opposed to the full releases played very fast? The sound is undoubtedly very impressive!
Best wishes,
Marcus
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tf11972

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 2:39 pm

marcus.reeves wrote:
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do we know HW is using the staccato releases given the speed as opposed to the full releases played very fast?


HW selects the appropriate releases for long, medium and short tones depending on the stroke duration. The producer of a sample set sets these in the ODF. If this is not encrypted, the user can also change these values. However, one must proceed with caution, otherwise the well-intentioned improvement will turn into the opposite.
Best regards
Thomas

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larason2

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 3:47 pm

I’ve worked with several of Piotr’s organs doing CODM work, and he has always recorded short, medium and long releases for each note as far as I know. I’m not sure what setting he uses for the releases, but I have set his short releases to 200 ms and the medium to 500 ms (which is the MDA standard), and they sound fine. I highly doubt for any recordings above, if the note duration is less than 200 ms that the long release would play. Whether a robot or a person plays a fast note, the same release will play if the note is the same duration.
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marcus.reeves

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 4:09 pm

Thank you, larason2 and tf11972 for your explanations, most informative. I’ll stop deviating from the subject now, except to say that I have Metz and it has stood the test of time well. The multiple perspective of Nancy is tempting though… :lol:
Best wishes,
Marcus
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B777Captain

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSun Jun 13, 2021 4:27 pm

Well….

So after spending time playing the Gorlitz with it’s amazing acoustics and my Aristide with it’s good CC sound, I surprisingly decided to……….. go ahead and BUY the Nancy after all!

The MAIN reason is that it is not a pure CC instrument and this intrigues me a lot. I kind of feel like a kid on Christmas Eve waiting for daybreak so I can open my present to myself! Lol.

Thanks for all the opinions and suggestions. Feel free to keep them coming as I learn a LOT from all of you here!!!

Pat
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kasterling

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Re: Metz VS Grand Symphonic VS Artistide VS Nancy

PostSun Jun 13, 2021 5:01 pm

I just wanted to say: kudos to all the mavens (experts) here who keep discussions like this alive and prospering for all of us to benefit from. This discussion has been fascinating and extremely informative. By the way, anyone who has not yet listened to Fraser Gartshore's performance of Piece Heroique on the Nancy set should certainly consider doing so. It really displays what this organ can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jNen0lO0Xo
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